Electro 12 issues

[Racer5x 14]

I have a 1968 Electro 12 Wheel Horse that I am having some issues with. When I bought this tractor (last fall) it ran great drove it up on the trailer and everything. I unloaded it off my trailer and parked it in the barn until a few weeks ago. I tried to start it, would turn over but wouldn't hit a lick. I got it into the shop and started messing with it. I tested for spark the old fashion way by laying the plug up on the head and letting it arc since I can't find my spark tester...and it seemed hit and miss. I swapped points and condenser out from a good running tractor I have and it didn't really make any difference. I put a new plug in as well. Nothing really seemed to make a difference. I even put a new carb on it that I had on the shelf just to rule that out...still no change. I cranked and cranked this thing (yes it is getting fuel) also it has good compression according to my gauge. All of a sudden it fired right up and ran great. I plowed the garden for about 2 hours and pulled it in the barn and shut it off. a few days later I go back out to start it and we are back to not starting. So I messed with it for another several hours and it randomly started right up again and ran great..shut it back off and wont restart again. I even put a new mag on it. I have been trying to find a wiring diagram that matches what I have and I haven't found anything. I have never owned a K series Kohler with the Mag type ignition (the one under flywheel) before. I am not sure if I have put the wires on the points wrong or what the issue is. Every wiring diagram I have found for an Electro 12 doesn't match up to what I have and the guy I got this tractor from has had it since nearly new and said the engine is what it came with new. I am to the point now where I have no clue where to go from here lol Any insight would be great and appreciated. Thank you!

[ineedanother 1,369]

It could be your ground. The points ground through the block and chassis back to the battery. Without that, your spark could be weak or absent. Clean and reconnect your ground wire and see if it resolves.

[oliver2-44 9,756]

18 minutes ago, Racer5x said:

I have a 1968 Electro 12
 

also it has good compression according to my gauge.

@Racer5x
If that is the original engine, it should have ACR automatic compression release when starting/turning over slow. With ACR typically don’t see much more than 40-50 psi if you try to check compression. 
 

What psi compression reading were you seeing?

If the engine has a model, spec and serial number please post them.  Is the an engine decals with ACR on it?

Did the engine crank at a good speed or barely struggle to crank over. 

[oliver2-44 9,756]

7 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

@Racer5x
If that is the original engine, it should have a conventional starter and ACR automatic compression release when starting/turning over slow. With ACR typically don’t see much more than 40-50 psi if you try to check compression. 
 

What psi compression reading were you seeing?

If the engine has a model, spec and serial number please post them.  Is the an engine decals with ACR on it?

Did the engine crank at a good speed or barely struggle to crank over. 
Just and FYI, The old Kohler Ks with starter/generators were the only ones you could do an accurate compression test on. 

 

 

[Racer5x 14]

60PSI which I read on this forum is right what it should be. I tried to upload pics on here but said they were too big. Model # S  Serial # D009829  Spec# 47147B.  What throws me off on this thing is it doesn't have any kind of voltage regulator, solenoid, or anything under the dash where my other Horses do. I have cleaned and tightened ground on the block. It doesn't match anything I have found as far as wiring diagrams go. It also only has a 3 position Switch. (BMS). You would think it is wired right since when it does start it runs really well and seems to charge. I'm not sure what else to do! Also, engine cranked normal like it should.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Racer5x

[953 nut 55,280]

7 hours ago, ineedanother said:

It could be your ground. The points ground through the block and chassis back to the battery. Without that, your spark could be weak or absent. Clean and reconnect your ground wire and see if it resolves.

This engine has a magneto ignition and is not wired back to the battery. Good grounds are important to the operation of a magneto and should be cleaned though.

7 hours ago, Racer5x said:

I have never owned a K series Kohler with the Mag type ignition (the one under flywheel) before. I am not sure if I have put the wires on the points wrong or what the issue is. Every wiring diagram I have found for an Electro 12 doesn't match up to what I have and the guy I got this tractor from has had it since nearly new and said the engine is what it came with new.

The Kohler Service Manual below will give you some insight on how the Magneto ignition system operates and what to adjust. @ineedanother was on the right track with cleaning up grounds and connections, there could just be a corroded connection or a wire with chafed insulation. remove the flywheel cover and inspect the wire from the points to the magneto and from the ignition switch "M" terminal to the points or magneto depending on where it was routed. The "M" terminal will ground out the magneto when in the off position, a chafed wire could ground itself grounding the magneto intermittently.

Your engine probably has a three amp unregulated charging system, not sure.

The problem you experienced uploading pictures can be corrected by becoming a supporter. 

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,046]

 

[Racer5x 14]

I appreciate all your replies. I plan on messing with it again this evening. Thanks!

[Racer5x 14]

So I have been messing with this thing with still no change. Sometimes I have spark, sometimes I don’t. When I do have spark it’s very weak. Has new coil, wire, points, plug, condenser, I have cleaned grounds and ran a new wire from points to key switch, and from coil to points. I give up. Lol Going to the points, I have the condenser wire, the wire from the coil, and the wire that goes to the key switch. Is this correct? 
Thanks, Corey 

[Racer5x 14]

Also, something else I want to add is this thing has no rectifier or anything under the dash or on the shroud like the wiring diagrams show. 

[953 nut 55,280]

8 hours ago, Racer5x said:

Also, something else I want to add is this thing has no rectifier or anything under the dash or on the shroud like the wiring diagrams show. 

 

On 4/11/2023 at 7:21 AM, 953 nut said:

Your engine probably has a three amp unregulated charging system,

 

14 hours ago, Racer5x said:

I have the condenser wire, the wire from the coil, and the wire that goes to the key switch. Is this correct?

The wiring sounds correct. Is the condenser a Kohler # 235786? these are lower capacitance so if your condenser is for a battery ignition system it won't allow as much spark to be created. 

[Racer5x 14]

I bought the one from Isavetractors for the mag ignition. It says it is replacement for 235786

[953 nut 55,280]

Is your spark plug gapped at 0.025"?

[pfrederi 17,741]

47147B spec number originally came with a Breakerless ignition system.  Obviously some PO replaced it when the trigger or coil failed. Going to be hard to figure which magneto style stator/coil set up they used with out pulling flywheel to see.  There are at least 3 types that would fit.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by pfrederi