Wheel Weights + Fluid Filled rear tires

[Blasterdad 2,692]

While browsing through some manuals & I came across this in several of them. 

It seems that Wheel Horse did not approve. 

 

Wheel weights and tire chains can be added, when additional tire traction becomes necessary. WHEEL HORSE DOES NOT RECOMMEND ADDING ANY OTHER WEIGHT TO THE REAR TIRES SUCH AS CALCIUM CHLORIDE OR WATER. THIS ADDITIONAL WEIGHT CAN CAUSE EXTENSIVE INTERNAL DAMAGE TO THE TRANSMISSION.

(Bottom of pages 9 & 10).

 

[Pullstart 62,843]

Oh no what shall we do?  

[SylvanLakeWH 25,551]

Uh oh... There's gonna be some RedSquare boys in big trouble from the WHPD... 

 

"Boyz... I sees youz gots profuse amounts a' liquid in them tracta tires...  manule rules say youz can't do that..."   

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,460]

40 minutes ago, Blasterdad said:

Wheel weights and tire chains can be added, when additional tire traction becomes necessary. WHEEL HORSE DOES NOT RECOMMEND ADDING ANY OTHER WEIGHT TO THE REAR TIRES SUCH AS CALCIUM CHLORIDE OR WATER. THIS ADDITIONAL WEIGHT CAN CAUSE EXTENSIVE INTERNAL DAMAGE TO THE TRANSMISSION

 

BALDERDASH !!!!! 

 

I've seen that too. 

 

I respectfully and vehemently DISAGREE

 

 

IMHO that statement is clear and concise proof that the author didn't have a proper understanding of physics and long term effects of appropriate weight distribution.   

 

I believe quite the opposite is true.   

Keeping the weight OFF the axles DECREASES wear and tear on transmission components.   

 

 

[Blasterdad 2,692]

2 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

vehemently

 

There's one for the "word of the day" topic! 

 

[SylvanLakeWH 25,551]

2 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

BALDERDASH !!!!!    

 

 

I was waiting for a reasonable, calm, collected and restrained response from our Mainah contingent... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kpinnc 12,017]

3 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

I believe quite the opposite is true.   

Keeping the weight OFF the axles DECREASES wear and tear on transmission components.   

 

Never thought about it that way, but there is some sound logic in the comment. Weight in the tire would be supported by the tire directly onto the surface. Weight in the wheel places all the stress on the axles and bearings.

[ri702bill 8,316]

7 hours ago, kpinnc said:

 

Never thought about it that way, but there is some sound logic in the comment. Weight in the tire would be supported by the tire directly onto the surface. Weight in the wheel places all the stress on the axles and bearings.

Close - agreed with weight in the tire being supported by the tire - and is a huge improvement in winter traction.

Weight in or on the wheel - same thing. Weight added elsewhere - on the hitch, a weight box, etc. does add stress to axle bearings and seals.

Been running filled tires and weights on 2 tractors for close to 10 years - no issues. Use tubes for RV or Windshield Anti freeze - no issues with rotting the rims....

 

Besides, the actual amount of liquid weight added is less than the difference between a small slender operator who has to run around in the shower to get wet and a truly hefty one that casts a big shadow at high noon....

Edited March 29, 2023 by ri702bill

[Handy Don 12,216]

1 hour ago, ri702bill said:

a truly hefty one that casts a big shadow at high noon

Noticing the very tactful omission of any names in this post. Well done!

[ri702bill 8,316]

DUH !!!

[Mike'sHorseBarn 2,998]

I mean, not to accuse wheel horse products at that time of being corporate, but it crossed my mind that it was put in there so they could sell wheel weights instead of us frugal people filling the tires. Just my 2 cents 

[ri702bill 8,316]

4 minutes ago, Mike'sHorseBarn said:

but it crossed my mind that it was put in there so they could sell wheel weights instead

Marketing at its' best ....

[ri702bill 8,316]

43 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Noticing the very tactful omission of any names in this post. Well done!

NOT my usual 80 grit style....

The definition of tactfullness - being able to tell someone to go to He!! in such a way that they look forward to it.,,, 

[SylvanLakeWH 25,551]

So all this time i've been diligent about keeping the pounds on me to help with traction... 

 

 

Have I been unwittingly violating the terms of my 45 -50 year warranty on my tractors... 

[ri702bill 8,316]

1 minute ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

So all this time i've been diligent about keeping the pounds on me to help with traction... 

 

 

Have I been unwittingly violating the terms of my 45 -50 year warranty on my tractors... 

And let's not get into the addition of way too many trailers being towed all at once with the WH Choo-choo.......

[rjg854 11,361]

Most likely had to do with the way calcium chloride rotted out the rims, and that water would freeze in cold conditions.  

They didn't mention RimGuard, windshield washing fluid or similar products.  

[ri702bill 8,316]

6 minutes ago, rjg854 said:

They didn't mention RimGuard, windshield washing fluid or similar products

All good stuff.. I do feel an extra oomph of motion with the filled and weighted tires at the end where I stack the snow. Once in motion, it just keeps sloshing along.....

[ebinmaine 67,460]

34 minutes ago, rjg854 said:

Most likely had to do with the way calcium chloride rotted out the rims, and that water would freeze in cold conditions.  

They didn't mention RimGuard, windshield washing fluid or similar products.  

 

 

I saw that too and I wondered if maybe are the antifreeze or WWF were not a commonplace thing so they wouldn't have gotten mentioned.

But then I got thinking that the listing doesn't address the wheel damage. It addresses internal transmission damage possibilities.

 

 

[CCW 1,295]

It also could have been a way of covering their butts is a transmission under warranty failed when the owner had non approved weight such as filled tires.

[doc724 925]

This debate has been going on for many years and I thought I put it to bed several years ago.  Doing this from memory, the radial load that the bearings can support (both the inner ball bearings and the outer needle bearings, is far above what we can put on them.  I cannot remember which bearings I looked up (probably the needle bearings since they are still available) but I remember something in the order of 5000 pounds was the design limit.  The problem with weight on the wheels (or in the wheels) is the force on the gear teeth inside the transmission due to torque either starting or stopping.  For an equivalent weight on the rims v inside the tires, the former will put less stress onto the gear teeth simply because the weight is closer to the center of rotation (ie the axle).  In either case I have not seen too many readers hear complaining about broken teeth inside the tranny which means that the WH designers built a considerable factor of safety into the design.  Remember back when these machines were designed, computer modeling of the parts did not exist.  Material was cheap and fuel economy was not a pressing issue so the designers built in a big margin of safety.

 

Bottom line, go with either weight or fluid fulled tires.  it will not make any difference to the machine unless you are building one to compete in a car crushing contest.

[CCW 1,295]

13 hours ago, doc724 said:

This debate has been going on for many years and I thought I put it to bed several years ago. 

 

Like every school new students need to learn the same lessons and from your comments I have learned something new.  Thank you for being one of the many teachers on this forum.

[lynnmor 7,305]

16 hours ago, doc724 said:

 The problem with weight on the wheels (or in the wheels) is the force on the gear teeth inside the transmission due to torque either starting or stopping.  For an equivalent weight on the rims v inside the tires, the former will put less stress onto the gear teeth simply because the weight is closer to the center of rotation (ie the axle). 

 

Fluid inside the tires can simply continue to rotate instead of adding considerable torque.

[Handy Don 12,216]

18 hours ago, doc724 said:

For an equivalent weight on the rims v inside the tires, the former will put less stress onto the gear teeth simply because the weight is closer to the center of rotation (ie the axle). 

 

1 hour ago, lynnmor said:

 

Fluid inside the tires can simply continue to rotate instead of adding considerable torque.

 

The “difficult to compute exactly” aspect here is that one can readily calculate the moment of inertia of bolted-on weight both horizontally and rotationally. The moment lets one compute the force needed to change the direction or speed of an object. 

 

As @lynnmor notes, however, the fluid is not tightly bound to the tire.

Its horizontal moment (tractor starting forward or backward, for example) is easy to figure and effectively the same as a bolted-on wheel weight.

Its rotational moment (getting the wheel to rotate) is far harder to figure because it depends on the friction between the fluid and the tire/tube carcass--but it is definitely less than a solid object having the same mass in the same position.

[squonk 41,084]

19 hours ago, CCW said:

It also could have been a way of covering their butts is a transmission under warranty failed when the owner had non approved weight such as filled tires.

[SylvanLakeWH 25,551]

Just a random question / observation... has anyone ever damaged their axle(s) or bearing(s) due to weight? (I do not recall reading a thread on it...) 

 

If yes - continue.

 

If not - Keep Calm and Add More Weight...