Making Big Block Short frame

[pfrederi 17,741]

Picked up a bastardized 856 at auction.  Bought it for the HL-5 head lights.  Engine is not original.  Air shroud showed a K161 but I pulled the head and measured the stroke it is a K181 and the bore looked good and she ran a bit on carb cleaner.  Got to thinking I have a refreshed K301 with no home.  Should fit under the hood but it is a bendix start which interferes with battery box.  I see two avenues of approach.  One is to put a motor cycle battery under the seat the other to get brackets and a flywheel pulley and convert it to S/G.  (I have a generator).  What do you all lthink I should do...I really have no specific use in mind for her.... I have enough WHs????

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by pfrederi

[ebinmaine 67,653]

When we put the Tecumseh HH100 in Trina's Military Tribute Tractor the change to a S/G wasn't an option. She bought a thinner motorcycle battery and we strapped it to the frame directly behind the engine. 

Only thing we'd have done differently is maybe find a vent hose that was longer. The acid vapors and some condensed acid caused the paint to peal below the hose in short order.  

 

If I'd had a 12 HP Kohler engine and generator?

Find the brackets. Make it look like something Wheelhorse would have built.  

 

[squonk 41,158]

Do you have the shroud Paul? That was my biggest hang up on 2 conversions I did. You would think there would  have been a pile of them at the show but most had the bottom rotted. 

[Achto 27,609]

One other option for getting a motorcycle battery in a tight place. 

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Achto

[pfrederi 17,741]

 

.

19 minutes ago, squonk said:

Do you have the shroud Paul? That was my biggest hang up on 2 conversions I did. You would think there would  have been a pile of them at the show but most had the bottom rotted. 

I only have a shroud on 50% of my small block S/G. I have the other one just never got it cleaned up and installed...  Live dangerously

 

But seriously they are pricey and since I have no real use for this tractor not sure I want to spend the $$ on S/g conversion...

Edited March 20, 2023 by pfrederi

[Thegearhead0324 1,256]

Just my 2 cents about the battery location, but I relocated mine under the seat with neat cables running to it hidden. Definitely has a cleaner look, and has that “all motor” look with frame. 

[squonk 41,158]

I got lucky and got my Big Block shroud from @buckrancher. Had about 15 layers of paint on it but the E tank took care of it.

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,653]

33 minutes ago, Thegearhead0324 said:

Just my 2 cents about the battery location, but I relocated mine under the seat with neat cables running to it hidden. Definitely has a cleaner look, and has that “all motor” look with frame. 

Would you mind showing pics and what battery you used? 

[Thegearhead0324 1,256]

1 minute ago, ebinmaine said:

Would you mind showing pics and what battery you used? 

I will take a picture soon as I can of it. 

[Thegearhead0324 1,256]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

Would you mind showing pics and what battery you used? 

Just took the pics. 

[953 nut 55,324]

5 hours ago, pfrederi said:

K301 with no home.  Should fit under the hood

Have you measured it up? Unless it is the small oil pan K-301AS you will need to elevate the hood hinge and steering/dash support a bit.

I did the battery under the seat conversion on a Predator repower. It was much like the job @Thegearhead0324 did and had no problems.

[pfrederi 17,741]

Got the K301 sitting on the frame.  I will have to raise just the front of the hood a bit. Does anyone know of a shorter spark plug to replace the HH 10 or Auto lite 216.  I know the K181s have both a full length and a short plug.  Shorter plug would require less lift...

May have to use J bolts for hold down as the oil pan isn't drilled for inner bolts...

Did a lift before on a Charger  like this.

 

 

 

.

Edited March 23, 2023 by pfrederi

[ebinmaine 67,653]

The threads and gasket are the same on a CJ8 vs a J8C.

If the engine is running well, not burning oil, I'd run the "peanut plug".  CJ8.   

 

 

[pfrederi 17,741]

26 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

The threads and gasket are the same on a CJ8 vs a J8C.

If the engine is running well, not burning oil, I'd run the "peanut plug".  CJ8.   

 

 

Thanks I will look a threads tomorrow but big  blocks use HH10

[ebinmaine 67,653]

Yessir. Different heat range I know. 

 

Here's the chart I went off of. 

 

 

 

 

You can see H and J have the same thread and hex size. 

The reach is a little shorter on the J. 

 

 

 

https://www.championiridiumplugs.com/champions-numbering-system

 

 

 

 

[pfrederi 17,741]

Thank you .  Top performance is not the big issue...Not going to be working it that hard

 

[pfrederi 17,741]

On 3/20/2023 at 7:00 PM, 953 nut said:

Have you measured it up? Unless it is the small oil pan K-301AS you will need to elevate the hood hinge and steering/dash support a bit.

I did the battery under the seat conversion on a Predator repower. It was much like the job @Thegearhead0324 did and had no problems.

Richard you may not recognize the engine but it was the one on the black Electro I got from you a few years ago.  My neighbor mowed 3 acres with her for a couple years...She ran great but leaked badly after awhile..  She was .030 over but cylider looked good an was close to spec so new rings and ball hone and some seals.

[squonk 41,158]

On 3/23/2023 at 7:20 PM, ebinmaine said:

Yessir. Different heat range I know. 

 

Here's the chart I went off of. 

 

 

 

 

You can see H and J have the same thread and hex size. 

The reach is a little shorter on the J. 

 

 

 

https://www.championiridiumplugs.com/champions-numbering-system

 

 

 

 

You have to be careful using the shorter reach. It moves the flame around. A saw a guy put 4 helicoils in an old lady's Dodge Aries. He didn't get the inserts in all the way so the stock plugs sat farther up in the head. That not run hard engine came back with 4 burnt pistons in 2 weeks time.

[littleredrider 409]

Could use the short oil pan. I did that to the 606 with the 16 horse Kohler. Used the housing off the K341, and regular sized battery. The pan was from a JD, not 100% the same, but is close enough to work. Just have to trim down the oil slinger. It fits under the hood, didn't raise it any, but its tight, might have to spread the hood some on the left side, but then my hood isn't tightened down all the way. Just one of entirely too many projects that I don't know if I'll ever get too...

[pfrederi 17,741]

Now clears the H-10 plug.  Kinda like the racy angle of the hood.  have to do some redesign on the front hood mount

 

Edit;  revised mounting shown now.  If this continues to work will replace bolts and or weld the new plates..

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by pfrederi

[ebinmaine 67,653]

I like it!

 

The front hinge rise is similar to what the factory did in '74 to clear the OHV160 in the C162 Tecumseh engine tractors.  

 

Nice work Paul.  

[pfrederi 17,741]

Sorry for the long delay but other things got in the way.  Conversion didn't work out. Got clearance for the K301 if she sat centered on the frame.  however the drive pulley and tranny pulley wouldn't align.  Had to shove the engine over to the left to get alignment but then the hood was not high enough. Would have to modify hood stand.

 

 

 

I have  10 hp techy that would fit but instead want to try out a K181 I got along with 5 other engines for $15. Had it running for a bit on a stand.  Want to see how well it works on a tractor .  Took it off work table today to set on the ground so i can do wiring, fuel tank and choke/throttle cables.

 

 

 

[Handy Don 12,237]

A good running K181 is a very gutsy engine. I mow a hill with my 854 and as I go from the level to the pitch the governor kicks in. The engine gives a bit of a snort/snarl and we just roll on up nice as you please.

[Jon Paulsen 290]

I like the slant hood look better. Nice work.