Can this K321 crank be saved? broken rod

[RedWheelz 149]

Just picked up a 314-A with 48" deck and plow for $300 and the engine had a broken rod. I've never replaced rods or pistons and was wondering if this crank can be cleaned up and saved without removing it from the engine. 

I watched some guys on YouTube clean them up and they always had them removed. I really don't want to remove it....

Just not familiar with this stuff and was hoping to save crank

[OutdoorEnvy 1,522]

I think you’ll have to remove the crankshaft to do it right and measure it for spec verification and inspect for damage.  I had a similar buy with a 10hp kohler and the connecting rod blew and melted on the crank.  I used muriatic acid to melt off the aluminium.  It worked great.  But this can be dangerous to do.  So some research on it would be in order.

 

Nice grab on the tractor though!  Definitely worth saving and a plenty capable rig for most any chore.  Looks like a K series Kohler too.  That should put it at 85 or 86 year!  

[kpinnc 12,066]

You're gonna have to source a rod anyway, might as well be a 0.010 undersize and have the crank correctly ground to match. 

 

Find an engine shop and have the bore checked as well. When you reassemble everything, you've got 20-30 years of durability on your hands with proper servicing. Check isavetractors. They carry full rebuild kits. Take the block and crank to an engine shop, and order the corresponding kit.

 

Don't be afraid of it. Using the Kohler service manual, and following it to the letter- you almost can't fail. These engines aren't complicated, but you have to stay within the tolerances specified.

 

 

[RedWheelz 149]

Having an engine shop look at it is a good idea. 

 

Yeah they are tough engines and worth a little extra work to get it right. 

[ri702bill 8,327]

It is a very violent event when the rod stops turning and grabs hold of the journal. The rod breaks - at speed - and the rest of the rod pieces go flying off inside the block. Bought a C81 parts tractor that way - it broke the camshaft, ripped off the piston skirt and the bottom of the bore in the block - and punched a fist sized hole thru the back of the block under the coil mount.

The short version - take the engine completely apart and inspect all components for signs of damage. Locate all the pieces of the connecting rod puzzle.Move onto measuring the journal diameter once the aluminum is removed to see if it has been cut before. Measure the block bore, top & bottom, for diameter, taper, and out-of-roundness. IF salvagable - have the block and crank and camshaft professionally "inspected" for cracks. (Magnaflux). THEN decide if is is trash or treasure..... I think fellow Forum Member @richmondred01 would agree - you have to be through and positive that it is repairable.

Edited March 17, 2023 by ri702bill

[Achto 27,594]

Here is one source for connecting rods, available down to .020 undersize. 

https://isavetractors.com/connecting-rod-for-kohler-k241-engine/

[953 nut 55,280]

7 hours ago, RedWheelz said:

wondering if this crank can be cleaned up and saved without removing it from the engine            NO

The block and all other components need to be thoroughly cleaned and inspected before a rebuild can begin. Small chunks of aluminum will be everywhere and a hot dip in a caustic soda (sodium hydroxide) will dissolve aluminum and clean everything. A good engine machine shop can save you a lot of money in the long run. Buying parts without knowing the condition of the rest of the engine is going to be a waste of money. You don't need to do all the measuring yourself, it would be better to have the machine shop do that.

Take a few minutes to read over this thread. 

 

[squonk 41,136]

Crank will need to be measured with a micrometer not a dial caliper. It will also need to be measured at several points fore and aft on the journal. There are probably a hundred stories on FB and YT said "I cleaned up the crank and its fine!"  As well as the ones that have a chipped cylinder from the rod hitting it and "it will last forever"

 

Fix it right and it will last for years Or slap it together and have a time bomb.

[953 nut 55,280]

14 minutes ago, squonk said:

There are probably a hundred stories on FB and YT said "I cleaned up the crank and its fine!"

Great point Mike, none of them come back the following week and tell you how big a waste of money it was because the engine blew up right after the video was taken.

[richmondred01 2,237]

It needs to be torn down to the bare block. The crank isn’t an issue. It will need to be ground. The cylinder apron will need to be inspected for chips and cracks, if required, sleeved. Cleaned in a hot tank. The bearings most likely will need to be replaced because of aluminum chips. anything less then a complete rebuild is a waste of time and money.
I rebuild engines like this weekly. If you want the engine rebuild properly drop it off. I’ll get it back to you in 8-10 days. 
 

[RedWheelz 149]

Thanks for the helpful replies! 

I got some work to do

[oliver2-44 9,756]

EBAY seller bakt4kids (87632 has also been a good reliable overhaul parts seller

[RedWheelz 149]

What is this unit worth as is if I were to sell it?

[wallfish 17,003]

55 minutes ago, RedWheelz said:

What is this unit worth as is if I were to sell it?

Drop another engine in it. Here's a 16hp

https://cleveland.craigslist.org/grd/d/sandusky-kohler-k341-16hp/7598166711.html

[kpinnc 12,066]

18 hours ago, wallfish said:

Drop another engine in it. Here's a 16hp

https://cleveland.craigslist.org/grd/d/sandusky-kohler-k341-16hp/7598166711.html

 

I would exercise caution on that engine. It's John Deere or Ford spec, and the blocks AND oil pans are different. You'd have to modify either the engine or the tractor to make it work. It can be done, but it isn't plug & play by any means. 

[oliver2-44 9,756]

46 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

 

I would exercise caution on that engine. It's John Deere or Ford spec, and the blocks AND oil pans are different. You'd have to modify either the engine or the tractor to make it work. It can be done, but it isn't plug & play by any means. 

 I’ve heard of oil pans and crank ends being different, but not the blocks?

[kpinnc 12,066]

6 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

I’ve heard of oil pans and crank ends being different, but not the blocks?

 

The engine in the ad has the "narrow" type base, and Wheel Horse used the "wide" base. The blocks are not the same, and can't be interchanged. The two pics below show the difference in gaskets for narrow and wide (green one).

 

 

[oliver2-44 9,756]

Got it. 
I have WH with both type of blocks so I wasn’t thinking about that particular tractor

[wallfish 17,003]

7 hours ago, kpinnc said:

 

I would exercise caution on that engine. It's John Deere or Ford spec, and the blocks AND oil pans are different. You'd have to modify either the engine or the tractor to make it work. It can be done, but it isn't plug & play by any means. 

Ah, I didn't really look past that ad title just to show they are available. Redwheelz wrote like he wanted to sell it vs rebuild an engine.

 

I like that little oil pan base. Looks shorter too, is it? 16hp mid 60s short frame tractor is what I'd use it for if it's short enough.

 

 

 

[kpinnc 12,066]

4 minutes ago, wallfish said:

I like that little oil pan base. Looks shorter too, is it? 16hp mid 60s short frame tractor is what I'd use it for if it's short enough.

 

That is one place it would work well. I'm guessing the frame would have to be drilled to accept the different bolt pattern. 

[wallfish 17,003]

Just now, kpinnc said:

 

That is one place it would work well. I'm guessing the frame would have to be drilled to accept the different bolt pattern. 

Thanks, on the lookout in my area. What tractors do those come from?

[kpinnc 12,066]

1 minute ago, wallfish said:

Thanks, on the lookout in my area. What tractors do those come from?

 

Fords and John Deeres both used those. Not sure about models and years though.

[richmondred01 2,237]

I’ll rebuild a wheel horse spec k321 long block for you that will include the head and pan. You put sheet metal, carb, flywheel and starter on. PM me if you are interested. 8-10 day turnaround. 

[WHX?? 48,823]

8 hours ago, wallfish said:

Thanks, on the lookout in my area. What tractors do those come from?

1055 & 1045 'Fish... I think I have one you can have. Came off a parts 1055. 

[wallfish 17,003]

7 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

1055 & 1045 'Fish... I think I have one you can have. Came off a parts 1055. 

That engine we were discussing is a bigger 16 hp. But if you're give'n away engines,