Longer wheel bearings for 1-1/8" axles?

[ebinmaine 67,462]

Is there such a thing as being able to get a wheel bearing that's longer than standard so that each needle has more contact with more axle surface?

 

This would be handy in particular on the backhoe tractor where the load is there all the time but of course would have usage in other tractors as well.... 

[WHX?? 48,815]

Won't work the axle tube is not machined for it. Not sure if it can be not enough casting closer in? 

[8ntruck 6,999]

Aren't just the ends of the axles heardened for the bearings to run on?  Wonder if that area would be wide enough?

[lynnmor 7,305]

In many cases a plain bronze bushing can have a load rating much higher than a needle bearing.  The issue may be a good supply of clean oil, a needle bearing only needs drops of oil applied intermittently.  Wheel Horse used some plain bushings and I’ll bet poor lubrication and lack of maintenance is what caused the change.  A little plumbing from a hydro might be an option.  There are wooden bearings in huge generators that have been running for a century.

[kpinnc 12,017]

5 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

This would be handy in particular on the backhoe tractor where the load is there all the time but of course would have usage in other tractors as well.... 

 

Just FYI- I knew a fella years ago who worked a contract for Wheel Horse. He ran a machine shop making new 1.125 axles for D series tractors. He told me that the backhoe attachment as well as dual wheel kits broke so many axles that WH ran out of spares, hence the contract. He sold me two new axles, and they were hardened. I wish I could remember his contact info...

 

Point being- NEVER use the backhoe without the outriggers. The axles can't handle the stress. Dualies also require some special care as well.

[ebinmaine 67,462]

30 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

 

Just FYI- I knew a fella years ago who worked a contract for Wheel Horse. He ran a machine shop making new 1.125 axles for D series tractors. He told me that the backhoe attachment as well as dual wheel kits broke so many axles that WH ran out of spares, hence the contract. He sold me two new axles, and they were hardened. I wish I could remember his contact info...

 

Point being- NEVER use the backhoe without the outriggers. The axles can't handle the stress. Dualies also require some special care as well.

Good info there. Thank you.  

 

I'd never use the Digger without the riggers out. 

 

If'n ya come up with that contact info I'd be interested.  

 

 

 

[kpinnc 12,017]

16 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

If'n ya come up with that contact info I'd be interested.  

 

If I find it, I'll definitely list it! 

[953 nut 55,211]

6 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

Aren't just the ends of the axles heardened for the bearings to run on?  Wonder if that area would be wide enough?

The areas where the bearings ride is induction hardened on the majority of Wheel Horse axles.

[ebinmaine 67,462]

5 hours ago, lynnmor said:

.  A little plumbing from a hydro might be an option

That's an interesting thought but the main tractor of interest is an 8 speed transmission.  

 

[ebinmaine 67,462]

27 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

The areas where the bearings ride is induction hardened on the majority of Wheel Horse axles.

What happens if the place where the bearing rides is only partially hardened? 

[953 nut 55,211]

1 minute ago, ebinmaine said:

What happens if the place where the bearing rides is only partially hardened? 

The axle would probably not las as long; perhaps 50 years rather than 100.

          What about longer axles from a GT-14 or "D" and construct a truss across the transaxle that would have pillow block bearings outboard of the axle bearings to share the load? The bearings of the pillow block would turn with the axle meaning the axle shaft wouldn't be subject to wear.

[WHX?? 48,815]

Prolly not alot ... did you guys catch Dan's post on his 953 where a PO put 1 1/8th bushings in 1 in cases? 

[ebinmaine 67,462]

3 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

The axle would probably not las as long; perhaps 50 years rather than 100.

          What about longer axles from a GT-14 or "D" and construct a truss across the transaxle that would have pillow block bearings outboard of the axle bearings to share the load? The bearings of the pillow block would turn with the axle meaning the axle shaft wouldn't be subject to wear.

Another interesting thought.... 🤔

[ebinmaine 67,462]

Just now, WHX?? said:

Prolly not alot ... did you guys catch Dan's post on his 953 where a PO put 1 1/8th bushings in 1 in cases? 

I didn't see that.... 

[WHX?? 48,815]

4 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

The axle would probably not las as long; perhaps 50 years rather than 100.

 

[WHX?? 48,815]

5 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

I didn't see that.... 

 

[oliver2-44 9,743]

The bushing idea is certainly an option to provide more bearing  load surface. 
one other thought. Get the needle bearing part number and go to a industrial bearing supply and ask if there is a heavier rated bearing the same size.  I know you can get heavier rated ball bearings that have more balls in them. 

[WHX?? 48,815]

Just now, oliver2-44 said:

 that have more balls in them. 

Might be a little out of EBs expertise Jim... 

[lynnmor 7,305]

16 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

What happens if the place where the bearing rides is only partially hardened? 

Plain bearings are usually a soft material with a hardened shaft riding on it.  If both parts are hard or both soft, galling or seizing can result.  Think of the soft main bearings and hard crankshaft in an engine.  The Wheel Horse axles were heated and quenched to harden them in the bearing area, you will find that the hardened area will be variable but likely extends a fair distance more than needed.

[Achto 27,570]

4 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

you will find that the hardened area will be variable but likely extends a fair distance more than needed.

 

I did a file test on my 953 axles about 2" away from the diff. File would not leave a mark in the axle, so I would say that the hardening extends a quite a ways in on the axle.

[Achto 27,570]

11 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

The bushing idea is certainly an option to provide more bearing  load surface. 

 

Odd thing was, they machined the ends of the tranny housing out to fit the factory seals for 1 1/8" axles. I was thinking, as long as you're boring the hole out for that why not bore it deeper to fit the bearings??

[ebinmaine 67,462]

14 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Might be a little out of EBs expertise Jim... 

[WHX?? 48,815]

26 minutes ago, Achto said:

 

Odd thing was, they machined the ends of the tranny housing out to fit the factory seals for 1 1/8" axles. I was thinking, as long as you're boring the hole out for that why not bore it deeper to fit the bearings??

Yep that was the big conundrum..

Why didn't the PO go whole hog?? Prolly didn't have the correct bearings at ACE? 

[WHX?? 48,815]

I see where your digging at here with the hoe tho EB. I don't remember does it have a FEL too and what tranny? 

[ebinmaine 67,462]

8 hours ago, WHX?? said:

I see where your digging at here with the hoe tho EB. I don't remember does it have a FEL too and what tranny? 

Digging at... Well done Jim. 🤠. 

 

It does have a Front End Loader, yes. 

 

1985/6 416-8. 

 

Far as I know it's the original 8 speed transmission. 

 

I'm gonna rebuild one this spring. 

Figured I'd give it the best fighting chance possible.