Damaged starter

[Daniel_Heetderks 35]

I've been having trouble with getting my tractor started lately. I try to spin the starter and it felt gritty. I removed it and noticed peices of metal rattling around inside, and the magnets are cracked and chipped. I have also had problems with melting/overheating wires, could that be caused by resistance in the starter? Does this mean I need whole new starter? If so, what starter should I get? Any info helps

[Ed Kennell 37,869]

Daniel, if you know the make and model number of the engine, you can search for a starter on line.   

 

The front cap looks like it may be for Briggs & Stratten engine.    I have some new starters for sale, but we need the engine model number.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Ed Kennell

[ri702bill 8,220]

For all practical purposes, your starter housing is done for. The internals can be saved, cleaned up and reused.

Had an intermitent start issue on the C81 - same problem and cause. Had a spare from a bad 8Hp - took both apart, made one good one, kept the usable spare parts....

 

PS - that damage is usually caused by dropping the starter or whacking it with a hammer (like the sticker on it tells you NOT to do)

Edited March 6, 2023 by ri702bill

[pacer 3,160]

I agree that yours is probably dead.... but, there are --- literally! hundreds on the bay priced from reasonable to insane. Or put an ad here in the classified 'wanted' section.

 

Need to put what motor youve got too.....

[ri702bill 8,220]

35 minutes ago, pacer said:

I agree that yours is probably dead.... but, there are --- literally! hundreds on the bay priced from reasonable to insane.

IF you go the new, aftermarket route - do check the reviews first and look for fitment issues that have been reported. Some only fit after massaging the mounting holes (which oh-so-conveniently voids the warranty and chance of returning it ....)

[Daniel_Heetderks 35]

3 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

Daniel, if you know the make and model number of the engine, you can search for a starter on line.   

 

The front cap looks like it may be for Briggs & Stratten engine.    I have some new starters for sale, but we need the engine model number.

The model is a Briggs & Stratton 252417. I wasn't sure if I should go for the OEM replacement from Briggs & Stratton(which is expensive) or a replacement from somewhere cheaper.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Daniel_Heetderks

[Daniel_Heetderks 35]

2 hours ago, ri702bill said:

IF you go the new, aftermarket route - do check the reviews first and look for fitment issues that have been reported. Some only fit after massaging the mounting holes (which oh-so-conveniently voids the warranty and chance of returning it ....)

Are the ones with plastic gears a no-go? I saw many reviews on Amazon complaining about plastice gears, but the original on mine has plastic gears.

[Daniel_Heetderks 35]

3 hours ago, ri702bill said:

For all practical purposes, your starter housing is done for. The internals can be saved, cleaned up and reused.

Had an intermitent start issue on the C81 - same problem and cause. Had a spare from a bad 8Hp - took both apart, made one good one, kept the usable spare parts....

 

PS - that damage is usually caused by dropping the starter or whacking it with a hammer (like the sticker on it tells you NOT to do)

oops, I was hitting it with a hammer, cause I heard that helps with certain issues. Didn't see any stickers 'bout that.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Daniel_Heetderks

[Ed Kennell 37,869]

15 minutes ago, Daniel_Heetderks said:

The model is a Briggs & Stratton 252417.

Yeah, I thought it was a Briggs.  I'll check the new starters I have.

[Achto 27,415]

20 minutes ago, Daniel_Heetderks said:

Are the ones with plastic gears a no-go? I saw many reviews on Amazon complaining about plastice gears, but the original on mine has plastic gears

 

Most B&S starters have a plastic drive gear, with no other option. I've replaced many drive gears on B&S starters.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Achto

[Ed Kennell 37,869]

Amazon.com: Motadin Starter Compatible With Briggs Stratton B&S 252416 252417 254412 254415 254416 254417 254422 : Automotive

 

I see this one has 16 teeth.

 

.          

 

Here is the one I have.

13 tooth metal drive gear with plastic engagement driver.

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Ed Kennell

[Daniel_Heetderks 35]

which one do you think would be better? 

[ri702bill 8,220]

1 hour ago, Daniel_Heetderks said:

oops, I was hitting it with a hammer, cause I heard that helps with certain issues. Didn't see any stickers 'bout that.

 

DOH!!!  Thought you had a Kohler - they have the sticker....   No hammers around starters....

Got a free Honda 4213 beast of a tractor that way. Thirteen HP liquid cooled engine - very well engineered. The previous owner was a total Doofus - used ahammer to whack a screwdriver on the starter to get it going. OOPSIES - he missed - sent the tip of the blade into the oil filter. All the starter needed was brushes!!

[ri702bill 8,220]

1 minute ago, Daniel_Heetderks said:

which one do you think would be better? 

Don't you need the same tooth count - gear tooth profile and diameter, that stuff???

[Daniel_Heetderks 35]

14 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

Don't you need the same tooth count - gear tooth profile and diameter, that stuff???

yeah, 16 tooth, idk anything about the diameter and profile, but if I get one inteded for that model of engine I assume it will be fine.

[Ed Kennell 37,869]

2 hours ago, Daniel_Heetderks said:

which one do you think would be better? 

I think you have to go with a starter that has the correct number of teeth.   If your old one has 13 teeth, then the one on Amazon should work.

[Daniel_Heetderks 35]

1 hour ago, Ed Kennell said:

I think you have to go with a starter that has the correct number of teeth.   If your old one has 13 teeth, then the one on Amazon should work.

Yes I didn't realize the one was 13 tooth. I've got 16 teeth on the one I currently have. Do you recomend the one from Amazon? Or is that just one you found for the correct engine model?

[pacer 3,160]

You will need the same tooth count, they wont mesh otherwise.....

 

I have a small Mitsubishi and just ordered one off the bay that looked the same ---- didnt work!! Luckily the seller took it back, was surprised at that! Usually anything electrical - no return!

[Ed Kennell 37,869]

5 hours ago, Daniel_Heetderks said:

Yes I didn't realize the one was 13 tooth. I've got 16 teeth on the one I currently have. Do you recomend the one from Amazon? Or is that just one you found for the correct engine model?

I don't have any experience with the supplier I posted.  That's just the first one that popped up when I plugged in the 252417 number you posted.

[Daniel_Heetderks 35]

Also, I am considering re-doing the wiring and solenoid while I'm at it. What gauge wire should I use for the battery wires?

[Handy Don 12,040]

23 hours ago, Daniel_Heetderks said:

Also, I am considering re-doing the wiring and solenoid while I'm at it. What gauge wire should I use for the battery wires?

Best to check the wiring diagram for your tractor (search on this site in the Files section), but generally...

Cables from battery + to starter solenoid or S/G and to ground (i.e. the big Red and Black ones) -- 6 ga copper stranded with appropriate terminations

Other wiring -- 14 ga copper stranded with appropriate terminations

(Note that wiring for LED lighting can be smaller, 16 ga, since they use much less current)

 

Lots of folks use 12 ga instead of 14 ga but it isn’t really needed.

Avoid aluminum or copper-coated aluminum wiring.

The wiring diagram also notes fuse locations and sizes -- these ARE needed!