Dozer Blade Spring Ends Coming Off

[Handy Don 12,178]

Plowing snow last weekend and hit a seam in the sidewalk. Normally the blade flips top forward and then the springs pull it back. This time, both of the lower cast end pieces pulled out of the springs!

 

Some EB-inspired sentence verbosity ensued (no minors in the vicinity) while getting them off (at least I’d put R-Clips on the support rods and not cotters!), screwing the ends back into the springs and then remounting. This in the 20-degree dark under the headlights. 

 

So I don’t recall seeing this issue mentioned before. My first thought is to wait for warmer weather and “putty” them in with some JBWeld but I’m very open to other inspirations.

 

Thanks!

[SylvanLakeWH 25,503]

Pic?

 

JB weld on a spring may be asking for it in the future...?

[Handy Don 12,178]

2 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

Pic?

 

JB weld on a spring may be asking for it in the future...?

Cold, dark, heavy gloves, frustrated, dinner waiting... Nope, pictures were not on my mind .

 

Part 11 (end) separated from part 10 (spring) on the lower end of the spring.

Part 11 is cast iron and is threaded to “screw into” the spring. Those threads are still there but seemed a bit worn. Of course, I don’t know any history of this plow's use so I can’t speculate if this has or has not happened before.

[squonk 41,041]

I've seen a few of these springs breaking documented on FB this year. Might just be a little bit of age/rust factor starting to creep in

[SylvanLakeWH 25,503]

Gotcha... 

 

So JB is just for industrial strength lock tite... 

[Pullstart 62,812]

Is there room for any type of limiting strap?  They are generally used for off-road suspensions to limit shock travel.

[ebinmaine 67,334]

27 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Some EB-inspired sentence verbosity

 

 

I'm REALLY happy I could help out. 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, squonk said:

I've seen a few of these springs breaking documented on FB this year. Might just be a little bit of age/rust factor starting to creep in

 

I've seen it here too. 

Agreed on the age/corrosion.  

 

 

There are springs on the market that could substitute for the OE parts but without the carriers. Loop style ends.  

 

I've looked into it in the past but other WH pieces came along so the idea was scrapped.  

[Handy Don 12,178]

10 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

Gotcha... 

 

So JB is just for industrial strength lock tite... 

Yes, exactly. That’s the thinking anyway.

 

10 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

Is there room for any type of limiting strap?  They are generally used for off-road suspensions to limit shock travel.

I don’t think it’s a problem of over-extension. The spring-to-end connection failed. If anything, extending the spring should tighten it by reducing it’s diameter, right, but the movement of the coil may have worn away the threading of the cast iron.

Add in @squonk’s point about rust and that combo may just be underlying culprits and so any replacement may have the same issue.

 

Makes me wonder how JBWeld would hold up. Maybe need to put some thin cold-rolled steel shims in there when threading it together?

Edited February 28, 2023 by Handy Don

[ebinmaine 67,334]

5 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Makes me wonder how JBWeld would hold up. Maybe need to put some thin cold-rolled steel shims in there when threading it together?

 

When the spring saw finally occurs and you get the ability to dissect this, get your handy dandy 3/4 diameter wire brush on a drill to stick inside that spring. Get a good strong cleaning in and out to eliminate as much scale as possible.

Reassemble and give it a bit of a shake. Might be that there is not enough movement to put in a shim but just enough corrosion or wear to allow the spring to fly around willy-nilly.

 

Likely a good gooping of JB will fix the issue.

[stevasaurus 22,712]

Check this out.  I refurbished my B-100 Snow Blade some years ago.  This may help you.   

This is what the springs looked like.

 

The springs going through electrolysis.

 

This is how they came out and I then soaked them in a oil bath for a few days.  A metal bread pan was perfect for both springs.  The oil was a mixture of Brake Fluid, Auto-matic Trans Fluid (Red), and some Acetone.

 

The finished product.

 

I feel like the process re-newed the springs.  

[ri702bill 8,296]

51 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Likely a good gooping of JB will fix the issue

 

HACK !!!! (coujd not resist). Yes, time takes its toll on both the spring and the threads of the casting. Testing the structural integrity of the frame "F: plate??? (we all do from time to time......)

Edited February 28, 2023 by ri702bill

[stevasaurus 22,712]

The other thing to do, is to adjust your blade height to 1/4" off the drive way surface and come at the expansion joints at an angle...not straight on.  

[SylvanLakeWH 25,503]

1 minute ago, stevasaurus said:

The other thing to do, is to adjust your blade height to 1/4" off the drive way surface and come at the expansion joints at an angle...not straight on.  

 

 

Saves on those wear bars too!!!

[ebinmaine 67,334]

9 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

The other thing to do, is to adjust your blade height to 1/4" off the drive way surface and come at the expansion joints at an angle...not straight on.  

 

6 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

 

 

Saves on those wear bars too!!!

 

 

Agreed on the principle but it doesn't scrape the surface.  

 

[Pullstart 62,812]

I’m surely no metallurgist.  Could the ends of the springs be annealed and brazed to the ends?  Could the ends be brazed and ground into better threads?  I’ve never considered that they simply screw together…

[squonk 41,041]

If their rotten (thinned ) out nothing is going to fix them so they last another 20 yrs. Try to find a good set and soak em in oil like Steve did

[lynnmor 7,302]

Part #11 is worn or rusted away too much, the fix is to get or make new parts.  IMO, the engagement is poor when new and gets worse over time, if mine causes problems I will make new that is tight as the hinges of Hell.

[Ed Kennell 38,049]

I never had one pull out, but I would prolly lay a bead at the spring angle and grind a thread to fit the spring.

[Handy Don 12,178]

2 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

blade height to 1/4"

Blade does’t have skids & the clean scrape is desireable

2 hours ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

(hit) joints at an angle

Yep. Sidewalk has settled on one slab vs. the other so it catches. Blade was at an angle!

 

1 hour ago, Pullstart said:

annealed and brazed

 

9 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

I never had one pull out, but I would prolly lay a bead at the spring angle and grind a thread to fit the spring.

 

1 hour ago, lynnmor said:

make new that is tight as the hinges of Hell.

It'd take much greater skill than I possess to braze or weld spring steel and/or cast iron and get a trustworthy bond--especially given the dynamics and stresses of that joint.

 

Short term, I think it’ll be bring those parts indoors, clean the fitting and spring (good suggestion about the pipe brush, EB) and then reassemble with JB and possibly something like a helicoil to help overcome likely wear on both components--and likely preemptively do the other ends at the same time!

 

E-tank and oiling come spring will go on the list, though when I prepped the plow for this season I explicitly flexed the springs to be sure that the coils weren’t stuck together.

Alternately, now that I know what to look for, acquiring a set in better shape is a distinct possibility.

 

Thanks again for all the thoughtful replies!

[Pullstart 62,812]

Oooo I HAD AN IDEA!  Drill strategically placed holes on the ridge of each thread, but not completely through the cast end.  Maybe 3 or 4 might do. Drive roll pins into the holes, but keep the holes short of the pin length.  Shape the pins to be a hardened thread extender.

[stevasaurus 22,712]

OK...not having any pictures of what you have there, enables all kinds of ideas.  I think the springs are the weak point that Wheel Horse made so when you hit something hard the springs popped.  Remember, the blade frame is attached to your transmission.  I don't think you want the axles of your trans to break just because you hit something that stopped your blade.  

   My thinking is clean the springs and see if you have a sloppy fit.  The last thing I would do is try to take the weak point of a system and make it the strong point...like welding the springs to their attachment.  I would rather buy different springs then replacing a transmission case of both.

   Maybe just clean it and put it back together and see if it comes apart again.  One thing for sure...if you have a place that is going to catch your blade, know where it is and slow down enough to raise your blade enough to get over it.  My thought...you were going too fast and did not give the blade a chance.  I hit things in my drive, but it stops my horse because I am not going top end.  The blade will either stop the horse or I will be ale to lift the blade a little to get by.  Just some things to think about while you read some of these other ideas.  

[Wayne0 444]

40 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

Oooo I HAD AN IDEA!  Drill strategically placed holes on the ridge of each thread, but not completely through the cast end.  Maybe 3 or 4 might do. Drive roll pins into the holes, but keep the holes short of the pin length.  Shape the pins to be a hardened thread extender.

I'm thinkin' this sounds like a good cheap fix!

[Handy Don 12,178]

50 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

Oooo I HAD AN IDEA!  Drill strategically placed holes on the ridge of each thread, but not completely through the cast end.  Maybe 3 or 4 might do. Drive roll pins into the holes, but keep the holes short of the pin length.  Shape the pins to be a hardened thread extender.

So in effect, drive roll pins into holes in the cast end piece by wedging open the spring coils in, say, three places around the circumference?

[Pullstart 62,812]

Not necessarily wedging the coils open, but in essence rebuilding the threads the way they were (assuming they are worn).  Shape the end of the roll pin sticking out of the cast into a proud V and become the new threads.  Then, spin the spring back on.

[Handy Don 12,178]

17 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

   My thinking is clean the springs and see if you have a sloppy fit.  The last thing I would do is try to take the weak point of a system and make it the strong point...like welding the springs to their attachment.  I would rather buy different springs then replacing a transmission case of both.

Agreed. But I don’t think the design of these springs included having the ends separate under stress.

The fit felt loose-ish when I reassembled them and they held for the last ⅓ of the plowing.

The trip springs are doing their job and the blade usually flips forward and then comes back. Plowing is at a moderate speed (hydro, probably a bit slower than an 8-speed's 2nd gear). Springs are at the recommended 2nd hole from the top on the plow back. I am thinking to move down one hole to lean the plow forward a bit but that may cause it to lift over pushed snow more easily.