Briggs & Scrap Iron Questions

[Achto 27,597]

I tore the engine apart for my Swisher Ride King because it smoked like a steam engine. The engine is an 8hp vertical shaft (model 191707 type 5844). This is an aluminum bore engine and I just don't think that it is worth a rebuild. I would rather rebuild a B&S I/C engine that has a cast iron sleeve.

 

Now for the questions.

1 - Has anyone had good luck rebuilding these aluminum bore engines?

2 - Other than the iron sleeve, is there any difference between the blocks on the two engines?

3 - Does anyone happen to have a L-head 8hp vertical shaft I/C engine that they could share the model & type engine from? This would give me the ability to research the parts manuals for interchangeability of parts. 

 

Thanks for any help.

[Pullstart 62,905]

Any room to put a larger engine in it?  Binford brand possibly?

 

 

[RED-Z06 2,221]

Briggs called these "Kool Bore" engines, the piston was chromed and the bore was aluminum, has specific rings too.  

 

The pistons almost always have worn coating, and briggs hasnt made new L head chrome pistons in about 2 decades, so id first check availability..after pulling the head to look for a lip. If it needs to go oversized...its not worth it.  I spent $350 having a 5hp briggs rebuilt only to then be informed it needed valves and guides...huge waste 

[Pullstart 62,905]

So…. Binford’s the only option?

[1995 520H+96+97 937]

What is the compression PSI ?

[953 nut 55,281]

[Achto 27,597]

36 minutes ago, 1995 520H+96+97 said:

What is the compression PSI ?

 

Never checked compression. Towards the end of mowing season last year the exhaust smoke would chase away every mosquito in a 2 block radius.  Bonus built in fogger but embarrassing for a guy that fancy's himself as a small engine guy. 

[1995 520H+96+97 937]

It may not need a rebuild.

[Achto 27,597]

12 minutes ago, 1995 520H+96+97 said:

It may not need a rebuild.

 Care to elaborate?

 

No cross hatch left on the cylinder wall. Cept below ring travel.

Chrome worn on piston.

Valve guides are worn.

Crank does measure out with in specs.

 

Checked with my machinists this morning. He would put a steel sleeve in it to the tune of $275. Think I'm going to look for an I/C engine to replace this one.

[WHX?? 48,824]

I've got a 8 BS on that homemade brush hog Dan. It hasn't ran in years but maybe saveable? When it ran it didn't smoke. I'll get pics of it. 

Any thoughts on a predator vertical?

[RED-Z06 2,221]

2 hours ago, 1995 520H+96+97 said:

What is the compression PSI ?

These had "ez spin" compression release which was a bump ground into the exhaust lobe on the cam, briggs never published any compression numbers because a healthy engine will blow low compression.  Briggs says remove the plug wire and spin the engine backwards by hand..if it sharply bounces off the compression stroke..it adequate to run 

[Achto 27,597]

1 hour ago, WHX?? said:

Any thoughts on a predator vertical?

 I don't think they make a vertical in an 8hp. Plus I need provisions to run a pulley on the flywheel side for the transmission. PTO end is for the deck only.

[WHX?? 48,824]

17 minutes ago, Achto said:

run a pulley on the flywheel side for the transmission

Forgot about that. Guessing none of these would work then??

Vertical Engines | Northern Tool

[Achto 27,597]

Ordered a "good running" 8hp I/C engine to replace the lumlum bore engine that I have. Benny & Grant are getting it to my door. Hopefully I will able to get a few years out of this new engine, if not I will still have a better engine to rebuild. 

[WHX?? 48,824]

This is what I got... I see no provisions on the block for starter mounting tho. 

[WHX?? 48,824]

5 minutes ago, Achto said:

Ordered a "good running" 8hp I/C engine to replace the lumlum bore engine 

That ain't the worst deal where did you find it? 

[Achto 27,597]

Just now, WHX?? said:

That ain't the worst deal where did you find it?

 

On Flea Bay, Is in Wausau. Offered to drive up there & pay cash but evidently that is not an option once listed on . Getting it sent to the door for $50 under the asking price.

[WHX?? 48,824]

42 minutes ago, Achto said:

 

On Flea Bay, Is in Wausau. Offered to drive up there & pay cash but evidently that is not an option once listed on . Getting it sent to the door for $50 under the asking price.

Well that's just stupid... coulda picked it up on my way to Spike Camp & gave me an acuse t go up. I suppose Evil Bay has to get their cut... bastages... 

Edited February 9, 2023 by WHX??

[WHX?? 48,824]

Let us know how it pans out. What was the matter with the motor on big ride? 

Edited February 9, 2023 by WHX??

[C-85 681]

I'm a B&S fan, so I hate to see them run down 

 

Of course a B&S aluminum engine usually didn't compare to the Kohler cast iron ones (I'm writing about the ones I dealt with during the 60s - 80s).  I did like the few B&S cast iron engines that they used to make.  My main comparison would be between B&S and Tecumseh aluminum engines.  I've always thought that B&S engines were designed simpler and just seemed to run very well, even often with terrible maintenance.  Tecumseh engines were okay, but seem more finicky and less tolerant to abuse.  So this is why I've liked B&S engines.  I also attended Tecumseh/Peerless factory school in Grafton WI and enjoyed that too.  I'm hearing that there may not be many if any made here any more, which is disturbing! 

 

When I went to a B&S service school years and years ago they discussed their warranty policies.  Back then they told us that no matter how old the B&S engine, if it failed due to an un-denying manufacturing defect, they'd cover it, and I really appreciated this!  I don't know if they would do that now, but they did then, but I can't think of any time that we asked for it.

 

C-85

[WHX?? 48,824]

I hear ya C. Dan and I have a buddy that fancies older 60s Simplecities with cast Briggs and the fact that you can easily turn a 12hp bore to a 14 due to lack of os 12 pistons. Says there alot of metal around the jug to do so. He also uses cheap knock off flo-jets with no problems. So he recently restored a Case with a Kohler and couldn't get it to run good. Fuel spark issues right Dan? Left a bad taste in his mouth for kohlers. 

[RED-Z06 2,221]

52 minutes ago, C-85 said:

I'm a B&S fan, so I hate to see them run down 

 

Of course a B&S aluminum engine usually didn't compare to the Kohler cast iron ones (I'm writing about the ones I dealt with during the 60s - 80s).  I did like the few B&S cast iron engines that they used to make.  My main comparison would be between B&S and Tecumseh aluminum engines.  I've always thought that B&S engines were designed simpler and just seemed to run very well, even often with terrible maintenance.  Tecumseh engines were okay, but seem more finicky and less tolerant to abuse.  So this is why I've liked B&S engines.  I also attended Tecumseh/Peerless factory school in Grafton WI and enjoyed that too.  I'm hearing that there may not be many if any made here any more, which is disturbing! 

 

When I went to a B&S service school years and years ago they discussed their warranty policies.  Back then they told us that no matter how old the B&S engine, if it failed due to an un-denying manufacturing defect, they'd cover it, and I really appreciated this!  I don't know if they would do that now, but they did then, but I can't think of any time that we asked for it.

 

C-85

Its been my understanding that the engine/transmission line wasnt making anywhere near the money that the peerless refrigeration line was so the sold the rights to the transmission line to one company and the engine rights to China..about 15 years ago.

 

Truth be told Tecumseh hadnt made a half decent engine since the Flathead aluminum block horizontals.

 

That said...Briggs should have been ashamed to produce anything with those terrible starter clutches and putting points under the flywheel 

 

[Achto 27,597]

1 hour ago, C-85 said:

I'm a B&S fan, so I hate to see them run down 

 

 

I get along OK with B&S engines. The old cast iron models are not all that different from the Kohler K models. One of my favorite things I like about B&S engines is the ability to change almost all of them over to solid state ignition with very little work. One thing that Briggs did was make engines to fit many budgets, in came the low budget aluminum bore engine to fit the bottom of the barrel budget. Never liked the aluminum bore engines. 

[WHX?? 48,824]

Dan

I dated a gal once that worked at the BS plant in North Milwaukee now occupied by HD. She told me quality control went out the window in the 90's and they just wanted to move boxes. Me thinks things were taken over by bean counters. 

[Achto 27,597]

13 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

putting points under the flywheel

 

I have never replaced or adjusted the points on a Briggs engine. If there is no spark, I cut the wire that goes to the points and install a solid state coil. Never worry about points again.