Which one to buy and restore?

[Ed Kennell 38,196]

Oops, Pete types faster than me.    

[Blasterdad 2,692]

3 hours ago, Blackm84 said:

I'm going to pick up the C model next week, he did buy the plow and tiller separately.  It has an aftermarket carb, I guess the original cracked.  My co-worker was going to restore it but instead got a late 70's craftsman from his dad so he wants to do the family tractor.  Only thing that scares me is the Eaton 1100 but I saw rebuild kits and seals are available so as long as I can find a service manual I should be good to go. I will also try to find an original carb.  Mower deck looked good but I will probably have to rebuild the spindles, when I tear it down I will sand blast then take the deck for powder coating.  I plan I striping the tractor then painting with an automotive base coat/clear for durability unless that's not a good idea.  Like I said I plan on using it.  I was looking for one of these or a 80's gravley tractor.  Of course my wife isn't too happy because its "old" but I would rather spend 1-2 grand restoring and using one of these over a new tractor that costs 7 grand and has all these crazy safeties and electronics.

All great idea's 

Parts are readily available & not that expensive, & they're easy to work on.

This is a GREAT community with lots of resources & GREAT people to help!

You'll end up with a GREAT tractor & attachments that will last a lifetime, not box store overpriced throwaway junk.

Plus the pride that comes with knowing you restored it! 

This below will come in handy. 

 

 

[c-series don 8,711]

@Ed Kennell Ed, I couldn’t have said it better myself ! 

[ri702bill 8,327]

12 hours ago, ineedanother said:

Nice! Snow plow is a bit of a misnomer though, just so you know. This doesn't come without some words of caution, but those are dozer blades and can move more than snow.

 

Those words of caution have been addressed on this site many times and something that the folks here would be more than willing to educate you on. The nuts and bolt of it are this: Misuse/abuse of the the dozer blade capability (slamming into piles of crushed limestone on an angle for example) can lead to fractures in the frame. In your part of the country it has likely been used as a snow plow and hopefully done in a responsible way, but I thought this worth mentioning. I always inspect the frame of a  I'm interested in if it has been used to plow. 

What that inspecting entails  is a close visual inspection of the frame plate where the transaxle bolts on - all too commom there could be stress cracks at sone of the 4 bolts. Plowing imparts a lot of twist and vibration into the frame - also look at the mounting ears of the lower steering shafy block 0 known to crack off... Hope the frame does not look like this:

 

 

[ri702bill 8,327]

12 hours ago, ineedanother said:

Nice! Snow plow is a bit of a misnomer though, just so you know. This doesn't come without some words of caution, but those are dozer blades and can move more than snow.

 

Those words of caution have been addressed on this site many times and something that the folks here would be more than willing to educate you on. The nuts and bolt of it are this: Misuse/abuse of the the dozer blade capability (slamming into piles of crushed limestone on an angle for example) can lead to fractures in the frame. In your part of the country it has likely been used as a snow plow and hopefully done in a responsible way, but I thought this worth mentioning. I always inspect the frame of a  I'm interested in if it has been used to plow. 

What that inspecting entails  is a close visual inspection of the frame plate where the transaxle bolts on - all too commom there could be stress cracks at sone of the 4 bolts. Plowing imparts a lot of twist and vibration into the frame - also look at the mounting ears of the lower steering shafy block 0 known to crack off... Hope the frame does not look like this:

 

 

[ri702bill 8,327]

12 hours ago, ineedanother said:

Nice! Snow plow is a bit of a misnomer though, just so you know. This doesn't come without some words of caution, but those are dozer blades and can move more than snow.

 

Those words of caution have been addressed on this site many times and something that the folks here would be more than willing to educate you on. The nuts and bolt of it are this: Misuse/abuse of the the dozer blade capability (slamming into piles of crushed limestone on an angle for example) can lead to fractures in the frame. In your part of the country it has likely been used as a snow plow and hopefully done in a responsible way, but I thought this worth mentioning. I always inspect the frame of a  I'm interested in if it has been used to plow. 

What that inspecting entails  is a close visual inspection of the frame plate where the transaxle bolts on - all too commom there could be stress cracks at sone of the 4 bolts. Plowing imparts a lot of twist and vibration into the frame - also look at the mounting ears of the lower steering shafy block 0 known to crack off... Hope the frame does not look like this:

 

 

[ri702bill 8,327]

12 hours ago, ineedanother said:

Nice! Snow plow is a bit of a misnomer though, just so you know. This doesn't come without some words of caution, but those are dozer blades and can move more than snow.

 

Those words of caution have been addressed on this site many times and something that the folks here would be more than willing to educate you on. The nuts and bolt of it are this: Misuse/abuse of the the dozer blade capability (slamming into piles of crushed limestone on an angle for example) can lead to fractures in the frame. In your part of the country it has likely been used as a snow plow and hopefully done in a responsible way, but I thought this worth mentioning. I always inspect the frame of a  I'm interested in if it has been used to plow. 

What that inspecting entails  is a close visual inspection of the frame plate where the transaxle bolts on - all too commom there could be stress cracks at sone of the 4 bolts. Plowing imparts a lot of twist and vibration into the frame - also look at the mounting ears of the lower steering shafy block 0 known to crack off... Hope the frame does not look like this:

 

 

[Blasterdad 2,692]

@ri702bill Great post!

Looks like a little "glitch" may have occured though... 

[ri702bill 8,327]

15 minutes ago, Blasterdad said:

@ri702bill Great post!

Looks like a little "glitch" may have occured though... 

Yup!! Full scan running in the background - really saps the response time!!

[Blackm84 97]

I think the only thing its missing is the cover for the hydraulic hoses.  But yes sitting in the snow i want to get it dried off and cleaned then brought into my garage where i can start inspecting im a paranoid nut so when i see leaks i want to know why.  I will more then likley replace hydralic hoses and drain fluids and then start cleanin up and painting.  Make sure theres no water and things move freely and function.

[Sailman 1,291]

Does it start and run? If it has not been addressed here yet be aware that if its not running you need to be sure to open a certain valve on the transmission before pushing it onto a trailer, etc. Not sure of location on that tractor but the hdro's need to have that valve moved to the "free wheel" position to be pushed without the motor running. Check with others here or in the manuals.

[Sailman 1,291]

Does it start and run? If it has not been addressed here yet be aware that if its not running you need to be sure to open a certain valve on the transmission before pushing it onto a trailer, etc. Not sure of location on that tractor but the hdro's need to have that valve moved to the "free wheel" position to be pushed without the motor running. Check with others here or in the manuals.

[ri702bill 8,327]

Agreed - it's called the tow valve - do yourself a HUGE favor and download the manual for that tractor. Read it and get familiar what it takes to go to the dance with that ol' girl....

[Ed Kennell 38,196]

12 hours ago, Sailman said:

you need to be sure to open a certain valve

 

12 hours ago, ri702bill said:

it's called the tow valve

This is an Eaton 1100.     No tow valve on the Eaton 700 and 1100.   Only the Sundstrands and the Eaton 5 had a tow valve.          The Eaton 1100s can be pushed by hand slowly without any damage. The Eaton 700 is very difficult to push.

Do not tow them .

Edited February 6, 2023 by Ed Kennell

[kpinnc 12,067]

15 hours ago, ri702bill said:

Hope the frame does not look like this:

 

 

Nothing a little 7018 can't fix. "V" those cracks out with a grinder and fill 'em back in both sides. Then grind smooth the side facing the tranny. Weld in a reinforcement tab like the later models have, and It'll last another 40 years.

Edited February 6, 2023 by kpinnc

[ri702bill 8,327]

4 hours ago, kpinnc said:

 

Nothing a little 7018 can't fix. "V" those cracks out with a grinder and fill 'em back in both sides. Then grind smooth the side facing the tranny. Weld in a reinforcement tab like the later models have, and It'll last another 40 years.

Good advise there. The frame I showed IS fixable, but it also has a 1/4" twist that needs to be dealt with first - I do as above, but drill about twelve 3/8" holes in the F plate so I can then plug weld the reinforcement plate in from behind, using the 4 fasteners to hold it in position. That one, because of it's crusty, rusty patina is destined to be the base for an upcoming "Yard Art" project....

[Racinbob 11,082]

If you're needing to reinforce the back of the frame keep in mind what you'll be using the tractor for and design your reinforcement accordingly. If you're going to use an attachment that mounts back there like a sickle on a push type center blade it's easy for it to interfere with the bolts. That's do say not hear say.  Fortunately I got lucky and the clearance was just enough for a tight fit with the bonus of holding the nut by the flat to actually assist me. 

 

Another thing I'm just throwing out there. I hear it all the time but I'm not convinced the front plow puts as much stress on the tractor frame as claimed. Besides snow I've pushed countless yards of dirt, gravel and stone and I've never cracked one. I've also cleared paths through the woods and with the roots and the like that's probably the hardest on it. But the frame is connected directly to the transmission. Sure, there's still some stress but not a direct cause. In the early years that area was simply the weak link on the frame. Then they started reinforcing it sometime in the mid 60's. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Racinbob

[Lane Ranger 10,968]

3 hours ago, ri702bill said:

Good advise there. The frame I showed IS fixable, but it also has a 1/4" twist that needs to be dealt with first - I do as above, but drill about twelve 3/8" holes in the F plate so I can then plug weld the reinforcement plate in from behind, using the 4 fasteners to hold it in position. That one, because of it's crusty, rusty patina is destined to be the base for an upcoming "Yard Art" project....

 

one thing I made is a couple starter bolts to place these frames back into the four transmission holes.

 

Just grind off the threads on a couple of the bolts and use to align frame with transmission!  Then add two other bolts with threads to get in place.  Saves a lot of time and stress!

[Sailman 1,291]

@ri702bill I assume this repair has to be done with a bare frame, transmission removed. I have seen another option on this forum using angle irons but believe it can be done without stripping down to the frame. I have a C-120 that PO used with push blade and brinley plow that has some cracks, thankfully not as bad as the picture you posted. My spring project!

[kpinnc 12,067]

2 hours ago, Lane Ranger said:

one thing I made is a couple starter bolts to place these frames back into the four transmission holes.

 

That is a very nice reinforcement plate. I like how you made that, as well as how you're attaching it. 

[Handy Don 12,233]

4 hours ago, Racinbob said:

Another thing I'm just throwing out there. I hear it all the time but I'm not convinced the front plow puts as much stress on the tractor frame as claimed. Besides snow I've pushed countless yards of dirt, gravel and stone and I've never cracked one. I've also cleared paths through the woods and with the roots and the like that's probably the hardest on it. But the frame is connected directly to the transmission. Sure, there's still some stress but not a direct cause. In the early years that area was simply the weak link on the frame. Then they started reinforcing it sometime in the mid 60's. 

I surely understand your position here and I agree that the stamped-in valleys that stiffen the later F plates were a good improvement.

I’ll add that I suspect a LOT depends on the style of plowing by the “plower". The plow’s force is directly on the transaxle, of course, but I also look at the overall forces at play. In particular, how is the force on the transaxle being transmitted to the frame? Consider:

- angled plowing being offset by steering force (puts sideways bending force on the F plate--a plow centering guide can lessen this by keeping the frame and transaxle aligned)

- ramming the plow into material or hitting solid obstructions with significant force, e.g. sidewalk seams (these try to separate the transaxle from the frame at the F plate horizontally and in rotation since the plow mount is below the F plate)

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Handy Don

[Ed Kennell 38,196]

6 hours ago, Racinbob said:

If you're needing to reinforce the back of the frame keep in mind what you'll be using the tractor for and design your reinforcement accordingly. 

 

Another thing I'm just throwing out there. I hear it all the time but I'm not convinced the front plow puts as much stress on the tractor frame as claimed. Besides snow I've pushed countless yards of dirt, gravel and stone and I've never cracked one. I've also cleared paths through the woods and with the roots and the like that's probably the hardest on it. But the frame is connected directly to the transmission. Sure, there's still some stress but not a direct cause. In the early years that area was simply the weak link on the frame. Then they started reinforcing it sometime in the mid 60's. 

                                          

 A few tractors have passed thru my barn that have shown signs of cracking.  Of course I have no history on how they were used and/or abused.

Having said that, the tractors that I plow with, a 312H w 48" and a 520H w/54'    show no signs of cracking.      They both have a front centering support on the frame.

Both are chained up and have substantial weight on the rears,  so they have great traction and can push some pretty big loads.

I clear 4-5 paved driveways and a stone road.    They have also been used to move and grade a 50 ton pile of black top millings and to clear limbs, rocks, and  leaves from woods trails and right-o-ways around the farm.        

 

My feeling is the blade trip springs do a very good job of limiting the amount of force that is transmitted to the frame/tranny connection.

The one exception is if the blade is rammed into a solid object that is as high as the blade that prevents the trip springs from flipping the blade over the object.

Like a 2' high frozen ridge of snow that is often found at the end of driveways.

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Ed Kennell

[Racinbob 11,082]

51 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

22 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

 

 

 

I agree that the transmission is forced to twist and has to bring the frame with it. But I too have 'abused' things pretty seriously over the decades. Ice mounds, concrete edges, some 60 yards of topsoil around a house I built in 1988, tree roots, objects that don't trip the blade, you name it and it's probably been done. I've thought several times about a centering device as a bit of extra insurance but it has never been high on my priority list because I've never had an issue...........yet  The frames I've repaired have all been older machines that came to me damaged. 

[ri702bill 8,327]

57 minutes ago, Racinbob said:

The frames I've repaired have all been older machines that came to me damaged. 

 

Ditto.... I also teamed up the frame plate with this triangular brace locked into the lower frame holes. These have been on the 854 8 speed for a few years now....

Edited February 6, 2023 by ri702bill

[Blackm84 97]

Well update I bought them both going to pick them up this weekend.  Got the b-165 for 50 dollars that one has its mower deck.  both are hydros.  I'm going to power wash the C model and get it in the garage and start working on it, my craftsman lt1000 is on its last legs and to no surprise there are not alot of parts available and anything I can find is made in china and barley lasts a season.