Horse Newbie 7,069 #1 Posted January 28, 2023 Hey guys I need a little advice/ help here… I got up this morning and the hot water was only warm… Checked the water heater and the pilot was off. Relit the water heater and as the flame was burning I noticed a drip sound and a ssssss like when you drop a drop of water on a hot piece of metal, and when this would happen I could tell by looking through the sight glass that the flame would change momentarily. It would drip and do this every few seconds. After the heater had run for a minutes it stopped doing this. At first I thought maybe the tank had a hole, but if there was a hole it would continue right ? I’m thinking that maybe when I lost the pilot and the burner would not flame up, the water heater cooled down and condensation formed, I relit and the condensation dripped until the moisture was gone. I plan to monitor the water heater and see what happens… what do you guys think ? A.O. Smith water heater installed 11/14/2020 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,118 #2 Posted January 28, 2023 (edited) A leak will keep on leaking. I'm going with condensation contributing to the hiss. Roof rafters not insulated might be a bit of the cause. Not a fan of that gas line . Is this LP? Edited January 28, 2023 by squonk 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pullstart 62,891 #3 Posted January 28, 2023 Every gas water heater condenses until the tank temp reaches 120 degrees. Normal operation there… but a great reminder to keep your t-stat at least 130, maybe 140, so it never falls to the point of condensing. Gas appliance condensation is ultra corrosive, a perfect way to find yourself in premature failure. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pullstart 62,891 #4 Posted January 28, 2023 46 minutes ago, squonk said: Not a fan of that gas line . Is this LP? I was going to point that out. It needs a drop leg, to catch any debris in the gas pipe. Black pipe is always the best, and the corrugated line can easily reduce throughput on the gas, limiting the supply the burner may need. This is all observation, gas pressure measured at the valve with a manometer is always the best way to confirm. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 8,323 #5 Posted January 28, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Pullstart said: It needs a drop leg, to catch any debris in the gas pipe. Up here - called a mud leg - same thing, a place for any solid crud to fall into before entering the appliance. What you have is "probably not to code" And NOT sufficiently guarded to prevent leak damage if something were to fall on that flex connector... Edited January 28, 2023 by ri702bill 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob J. 1,942 #6 Posted January 28, 2023 I went to a tankless. Very efficient. Only down downside is it takes a little longer to get hot water to the sink (plugged up water savers) faucets. Faucets with bigger lines like the tub/shower are better. It will run hot water from every faucet wide open for as long as you want. It’s NG and is exhausted from a 3” PVC pipe out my garage wall. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 48,815 #7 Posted January 28, 2023 (edited) They are properly called drip legs. They come from old school days when pipe was hand and even machine threaded to keep thread cutting oil out of the valve. They should be used at all appliance connections. Looks to me he had a LP system (copper lines) that was converted to 2 lb natural gas. Hence the regulator to take it down to 7" water column. Actually, guys there is nothing in the code books against the connector. Yes just condensation from a cold tank when started and should go away after run time. Just like the vapor that comes out of a tractor exhaust when first started in the cold. Yes very corrosive. this is why is best not to completely empty a tank or run it too low. Unheard of here to have it installed in an attic. Guess it the norm in warmer climes. Good to see they had the presence of mind to put it in a drip pan. Edited January 28, 2023 by WHX?? 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horse Newbie 7,069 #8 Posted January 28, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, squonk said: Not a fan of that gas line . Is this LP Which gas line… the copper, or the yellow flexible connector ? Natural gas… Edited January 28, 2023 by Horse Newbie 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horse Newbie 7,069 #9 Posted January 28, 2023 3 hours ago, Pullstart said: Every gas water heater condenses until the tank temp reaches 120 degrees. Normal operation there… but a great reminder to keep your t-stat at least 130 Setting don’t do numerical… I have a choice of low, hot, A, B, C, or very hot. I set it on hot as I was thinking that would do. If Libby wants it a little hotter, I will go up one setting at a time until she is okay with water temperature. I think I had it on “A” before and it would scald you… could definitely not do that setting if we had kids in the house… 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horse Newbie 7,069 #10 Posted January 28, 2023 3 hours ago, Pullstart said: I was going to point that out. It needs a drop leg, to catch any debris in the gas pipe. Black pipe is always the best, and the corrugated line can easily reduce throughput on the gas, limiting the supply the burner may need. This is all observation, gas pressure measured at the valve with a manometer is always the best way to confirm. I agree with the drip leg as I have seen them in the past. I believe the gas piping was installed without a drip leg… house built in 1997, we moved in in 2007. I was also surprised to see the copper gas line also, but apparently it meets code. Black pipe comes from the gas meter into the garage wall cavity, then immediately changes over to copper. We have only a gas furnace and water heater on gas. I used the flexible connector because it was specifically stated in the instructions that a brand new connector of that type must be used ( has a built in brass body back flow preventer that came with the line ). I think code requires a flexible connector in case the water heater tips less likely to cause a gas leak… maybe they were thinking about earthquakes… 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horse Newbie 7,069 #11 Posted January 28, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, WHX?? said: They are properly called drip legs. They come from old school days when pipe was hand and even machine threaded to keep thread cutting oil out of the valve Since most of my gas piping is copper ( only threaded pipe is at the meter outside and a short piece into garage wall cavity), and the fact that the gas pipe then takes an 8-9 foot vertical run into the attic, no debri will get that far, not with just 2 psi pressure… 1 hour ago, WHX?? said: Looks to me he had a LP system (copper lines) that was converted to 2 lb natural gas. Hence the regulator to take it down to 7" water column. Actually, guys there is nothing in the code books against the connector Don’t think it was LP converted to gas… city house built in 1997, and yes a flexible connector is required. Edited January 28, 2023 by Horse Newbie 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,118 #12 Posted January 28, 2023 Copper line looks puny and is in an area where it could get damaged. Every nat gas line here in NY is black iron. No brazing soldering, flaring or compression fittings. Drip pan is nice but it that thing lets go the that pan will stop working in about a minute. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pullstart 62,891 #13 Posted January 28, 2023 32 minutes ago, Horse Newbie said: Setting don’t do numerical… I have a choice of low, hot, A, B, C, or very hot. I set it on hot as I was thinking that would do. If Libby wants it a little hotter, I will go up one setting at a time until she is okay with water temperature. I think I had it on “A” before and it would scald you… could definitely not do that setting if we had kids in the house… Right. The manufactures spec’d it to be numbers, to reduce the “I have it on 120 but it’s coming out of my faucet at 112” claims. Hot should be close to 120. You are correct that 130 can easily scald. I prefer to install new water heaters with a thermostatic mixing valve to allow the greater tank temp, but allow output temps to be set wherever desired. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horse Newbie 7,069 #14 Posted January 28, 2023 58 minutes ago, Horse Newbie said: think code requires a flexible connector in case the water heater tips less likely to cause a gas leak… maybe they were thinking about earthquakes I said wrong… you have to have black pipe inside and through the furnace/ appliance cabinet… then you can connect the flexible connector… 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horse Newbie 7,069 #15 Posted January 28, 2023 All this talk about water heaters has me wondering… Do any of you fellows drain/ flush your water heaters at the recommended 6 month intervals to remove sediment build up ? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blasterdad 2,692 #16 Posted January 28, 2023 7 hours ago, Horse Newbie said: Make sure that copper line isn't touching the gang nailer on that roof truss or any other metal besides copper, it will eat a hole in it... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horse Newbie 7,069 #17 Posted January 28, 2023 10 minutes ago, Blasterdad said: Thanks… I will definitely check the hangers and copper line… 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horse Newbie 7,069 #18 Posted January 28, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, squonk said: Drip pan is nice but it that thing lets go the that pan will stop working in about a minute I hear ya… Agree… a catastrophic tank failure would over flow that pan immediately… guess that’s what insurance is for… A slow leak, which I noticed coming from the drain pan drain line is how I found out about needing a new water heater in Nov. 2020. Edited January 29, 2023 by Horse Newbie 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lynnmor 7,306 #19 Posted January 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Horse Newbie said: All this talk about water heaters has me wondering… Do any of you fellows drain/ flush your water heaters at the recommended 6 month intervals to remove sediment build up ? I have a sediment filter on the incoming line and never saw a significant amount of debris in the water heater. Water quality varies greatly and each household needs to find what works best for them. The one thing that is universally ignored is the anode rod, again things vary but it needs to be checked regularly to determine a replacement frequency. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kenneth R Cluley 515 #20 Posted January 29, 2023 Sediment doesn't come in from outside, it is a by-product of heating elements. Especially in electric heaters. Not sure about gas. Minerals, etc.in water collect on elements and flake off as heat and cool cycle occurs. They build up in bottom of tank and eventually cover lower element. Then it fails. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horse Newbie 7,069 #21 Posted January 29, 2023 17 minutes ago, lynnmor said: The one thing that is universally ignored is the anode rod Yeah, never have checked those but I have heard changing in them when their life is over will astronomically increase the tank life of a tank. When the rods are working they attract minerals that would otherwise collect on the bottom of the tank. When the rods have collected all they can hold the sediment builds up and rots the bottom of the tank… 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Horse Newbie 7,069 #22 Posted January 29, 2023 2 minutes ago, Kenneth R Cluley said: Sediment doesn't come in from outside, it is a by-product of heating elements. Especially in electric heaters. Not sure about gas. Minerals, etc.in water collect on elements and flake off as heat and cool cycle occurs. They build up in bottom of tank and eventually cover lower element. Then it fails. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pullstart 62,891 #23 Posted January 29, 2023 3 hours ago, Horse Newbie said: All this talk about water heaters has me wondering… Do any of you fellows drain/ flush your water heaters at the recommended 6 month intervals to remove sediment build up ? Great idea! It’s like changing the oil in a small engine every 50 hours. Most sacrificial anodes last about 2 years. If you pull it in 2 years for inspection, there is no way you’ll want to put it back to finish it’s life. Pro Tip: it’s very commonplace for the industry to “upgrade” you to an aluminum or A420 alloy anode that lasts longer than magnesium which comes standard. Magnesium offers the best protection, therefore lasts the least amount of time. It sacrificed itself to save your tank. Keep with magnesium! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 48,815 #24 Posted January 29, 2023 5 hours ago, Horse Newbie said: I was also surprised to see the copper gas line also, but apparently it meets code. It does as long as forged flare nuts are used as as opposed to water line flare nuts. Quite common in retrofit LP to natural retrofits. 4 hours ago, Horse Newbie said: All this talk about water heaters has me wondering… Do any of you fellows drain/ flush Nope ... nowadays it all goes to hell just replace it. That's what they want you to do so you buy another box and Pullstart's wife keeps her job. You don't mess with a 10 year old water heater you just replace it. Just happy this doesn't apply to our tractors. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pullstart 62,891 #25 Posted January 29, 2023 48 minutes ago, WHX?? said: ... nowadays it all goes to hell just replace it. That's what they want you to do so you buy another box and Pullstart's wife keeps her job. You don't mess with a 10 year old water heater you just replace it. Just happy this doesn't apply to our tractors. When you want to trade your old washed up herd for a new box store el cheapo “tractor” you just let me know! I’ll even pay freight! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
