520H needs to blow snow but no spark and..... no headlights?

[Tims520 18]

Long time reader, first time poster, thanks for all the info I've already gotten from the forum!

 

I've done some searching and I just found the sticky on this subforum, so I'll be working my way through all of the fantastic information you've all put out into the world.  You've already helped me with my attachments, but I don't have a lot of time to work through all of the information due to expected snow tomorrow.

 

I picked up a 2 stage snowblower from a forum member and got a chance to use it around Christmas - all good!  I haven't tried to run it since then, and even though I knew I should have put the battery on the charger, there's no power in the barn.  So it ran great, parked it, and it won't start now.  I forget if I replaced the bad headlight before or after running it last, but that's in the mix too.  When I tried to start it, the battery was low and died before it could start.  I jumped it with a spare battery and got it to cough once, since then, nothing.  At first with the ignition on, the low oil light would blink, now it does not.  When I hit the test button, all the lights light up including the oil light.  That made me check the headlights, and they don't turn on either.  I feel like this should be a hint.

 

With the two stage snowblower on, it's a bear to work under the hood, so I've been propping it open.  My 2x4 has slipped a couple times.  Could I have knocked something loose doing that?  I did take the connections off the coil and test that, getting a 3.0 ohm resistance, which seems to mean that's o.k., right?  I've owned it for three years with no problems, so I figured it wouldn't hurt anything to change the plugs.  The front one was wet (flooded, I assume), but as expected, no joy with starting.  I've tried shooting starting fluid into the carb but not directly into the cylinder.  I may try directly in the cylinder tomorrow just because it's easy, but I don't expect anything.  As far as I can tell, the previous owner bypassed every safety switch except for the PTO so I don't think they should be a factor.  The fuses are good, although I do believe it's the original fuse block.

 

Does anyone have a genius "duh" moment for me, or do I have to slog my way through all the troubleshooting?  I'm open to suggestions on prioritizing troubleshooting too - I'm mechanically inclined but a total noob with these.

 

Maybe more importantly, is there any way to basically hotwire it so I can run it enough to blow snow (for less than an hour) and work on an actual fix when we have better weather?

 

Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,041]

Do not use starter fluid on a gas engine. Use a fuel system cleaner or WD40. The propellant in the spray cans is usually butane or propane and won't hurt the engine.

 

You could run a jumper from battery + to the coil + as a temporary ignition.

[squonk 41,099]

Start with a new battery

[953 nut 55,216]

As Mike said, the battery may be the problem. Take your battery to any auto parts store and have it load tested, they do it for free. Also, clean and tighten ALL electrical connections including grounds.

[lynnmor 7,305]

1 hour ago, squonk said:

Start with a new battery

And always, ALWAYS keep it fully charged.  Lose the starter fluid.

[Tims520 18]

Thanks folks.  No dice.

 

Swapped the battery and it cranked maybe a little better but no start.  Tried the jumper, no start.

 

Thanks to the pinned thread I saw how to check the secondary windings on the coil - 16,330 ohms, so that seems to be where it should be too. 

 

I did find a little corrosion on the wire to the front plug but it cleaned off easily.  I measured the resistance in the coil before trying to clean in there, so that doesn't seem to be an issue.

 

I've also checked all the connections I have access to, they seem o.k.  This seems to have happened at the same time that the headlights quit working.  Also, until now when the ignition is on, the oil light would flash.  Now it only lights up (flashing) when I hold the test button down.  Is there a clue in there somewhere?  I'll look around for the wiring diagrams and see if I can find a candidate, but I'm not liking my odds of getting it running before the snow flies.

 

[peter lena 8,623]

@Tims520  those 520 series are known for , cracked , powerdry  electrical connections , stressed wiring / chafing , safety switches , etc , you might also add a battery tender to your set up ,  last photo is the easy plug in I  have on my  3 horses. also note the added ground cable on frame to corner of engine / frame , insures grounding . a similar  member  will probably have a track for your issue , pete     

 

[lynnmor 7,305]

In post #2 it was suggested to run a jumper, try it.

[Ed Kennell 38,167]

14 hours ago, Tims520 said:

the previous owner bypassed every safety switch except for the PTO

Jumping 12VDC directly to the coil as suggested will complete the ignition circuit.      But If it does not crank, the PTO switches, there are two, may be a problem in the starting circuit.

[Tims520 18]

Thanks again.  The barn is 350' from the house without power.  A battery tender may not be impossible, but it's not going to happen.  The past 3 winters it was fine, but I understand that as batteries age they get less tolerant of mistreatment.

 

I did try the jumper and mentioned it above, but that may not have been clear in my post.  It didn't fire with the jumper either.

 

When running the jumper from the + battery terminal to the + coil terminal, I just added it to the post.  Is that the correct thing to do or should I have removed any of the other connections?

 

[Tims520 18]

Thanks Ed.  It does crank and it does have fuel.  I just don't seem to have any spark.  Even running a jumper I didn't get any spark.

 

I guess I should ask, how much current is flowing through that jumper?  It didn't show any signs of getting warm, but I just reused a jumper I had laying around.  Should I have made a special one from 12 gauge wire?

[TractorEd 633]

If it turns over but won’t fire I’d double check the safety switches.  Make sure the jumpers in those bypassed switches are still seated and intact.

 

they make some nice little solar panels for charging batteries nowadays.  If you can’t run electric out there, maybe this is an option?

Edited January 29, 2023 by TractorEd

[Tims520 18]

That sounds painful - I don't know where the switches are at or where he bypassed them.  Is this normally done at the switch itself or under the hood? 

 

I thought they were all bypassed, for instance I can start it and drive it all while standing next to it, but I learned the PTO switch(es?) was still intact when it stalled unless I was in the seat.  This also makes me think the seat switch must be working in some capacity.

 

Would the coil jumper wire have bypassed all of the safety switches?  Even when I had the jumper on I did not get spark.  I'm going to run into town and see if I can find a spark tester to get better confirmation on the spark.

 

I'm also going to check the fuses again.  I don't understand why the lights have quit working at the same time as the starting issue.

 

Thanks again for your time.  I was really hoping for the chance to start justifying buying that snowblower!

[TractorEd 633]

13 minutes ago, Tims520 said:

That sounds painful - I don't know where the switches are at or where he bypassed them.  Is this normally done at the switch itself or under the hood? 

 

I thought they were all bypassed, for instance I can start it and drive it all while standing next to it, but I learned the PTO switch(es?) was still intact when it stalled unless I was in the seat.  This also makes me think the seat switch must be working in some capacity.

 

Would the coil jumper wire have bypassed all of the safety switches?  Even when I had the jumper on I did not get spark.  I'm going to run into town and see if I can find a spark tester to get better confirmation on the spark.

 

I'm also going to check the fuses again.  I don't understand why the lights have quit working at the same time as the starting issue.

 

Thanks again for your time.  I was really hoping for the chance to start justifying buying that snowblower!

Yes, that coil jumper should have bypassed those safety switches.  I must have skipped over that.

 

People generally bypass those safety switches using a short piece of wire or a nail bent in a U shape.  Typically the switch is unplugged and the jumper wire/nail/whatever put in its place.  One end in one side of the connector and the other end in the other side.

 

I’m not familiar with that Onan engine but it looks like it uses an ignition module (no points).  All I can say about that is I had a car that would turn over but not fire and it was a faulty ignition module.

 

Im going to just stop sticking my foot in my mouth and let someone who knows more about that Onan help out.

Edited January 28, 2023 by TractorEd

[TractorEd 633]

Look at this post, looks very detailed on that engine and no spark.

 

 

[lynnmor 7,305]

You don't need to buy a spark tester, just use any spark plug with the gap opened a bit wider than normal.  Ground the threaded end and connect a spark plug wire, then crank while watching the gap.

[Tims520 18]

Thanks Ed.  That link is where I learned how to check the secondary coils.

 

Thanks lynnmor.  With a harbor fright not too far out of my way, I bought a $5 inline spark tester for convenience

 

Even without the jumper wire, I have 12.12 volts (I've been cranking it quite a bit trying different things) at the coil with the ignition on, so I don't think any safeties are the problem.  The spark tester confirmed no spark at either plug.

 

I have to read through the post Ed linked to again, but I think that means it's time to test the module, which I believe will require me to remove the engine shroud, right?  Not bad for maintenance, but that makes this a summer job.

 

I'll make another post in this thread separate from this response, so it doesn't get lost.  I curious what a part does and if there's any chance it's related.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Tims520

[Tims520 18]

What's the part I circled?  I have to prop the hood up because the snowblower doesn't let you open it all the way, and the 2x4 I use has dropped a couple times.  Looking around for anything it might have hit, this part is a candidate.  Could it cause this problem or, since I have 12V at the coil with the ignition on (as well as tried a jumper) is it irrelevant?

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Tims520

[lynnmor 7,305]

21 minutes ago, Tims520 said:

I have to read through the post Ed linked to again, but I think that means it's time to test the module, which I believe will require me to remove the engine shroud, right?  Not bad for maintenance, but that makes this a summer job.

 

The wires come up from the module and it can be tested at the coil, see the service manual you were just directed to.  If the module then tests bad it is time to pop the flywheel and open your wallet real wide.

 

The part you circled grounds the temperature light turning it on if it senses overheating.  It can cause you no operational problems.

[Tims520 18]

Thanks lynnmor.  Am I having a dumb moment?  How do you rotate the flywheel by hand with the cover on?  Would I bump the starter or am I just missing something?

 

Or maybe it's just time I back off and start doing research, I imagine this may be answered somewhere else.  I was really hoping to find the "easy button"!

[lynnmor 7,305]

7 hours ago, Tims520 said:

Thanks lynnmor.  Am I having a dumb moment?  How do you rotate the flywheel by hand with the cover on?  Would I bump the starter or am I just missing something?

 

Or maybe it's just time I back off and start doing research, I imagine this may be answered somewhere else.  I was really hoping to find the "easy button"!

Remove the spark plugs so that there is no compression.  Grab the pulley nearest the engine that is behind the PTO, then turn.  Normal direction is counter clockwise.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,041]

19 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

Jumping 12VDC directly to the coil as suggested will complete the ignition circuit.      But If it does not crank, the PTO switches, there are two, may be a problem in the starting circuit.

The reason for the jumper is it eliminates all other possible failures between the battery and the ignition coil regardless of the ignition switch key positions.

The ignition switch can fail in both the RUN and/or START positions.

[Blasterdad 2,692]

Have you checked all the fuses & the infamous 9 pin connector ?

[c-series don 8,701]

Keep ‘em coming, I’d like to know why this thing has no spark. He says it turns over so the safety switches are not the issue. If they were it would not crank, period. 

[Tims520 18]

Thanks for the support!

 

Thanks for the pro tip lynnmor, that was much needed.

 

Thanks for the point about the ignition switch.  I've been wondering if it could be part of the problem.  Since the jumper didn't help, and the motor did crank, can I assume that' s not the issue?

 

I've checked the 3 fuses in the fuse block and blown out a little debris that was in there.  I even checked them with a multimeter because sometimes I'm too stubborn to put on reading glasses.  I did not check the buss fuse because I have 12V at the coil, but that's easy to do, I'll get to it in a few minutes just to be certain.  O.k., it looks like the previous owner added that fuse for a cigaretter lighter socket, and it's fine.

 

I read about the 9 pin connector before I bought this tractor and have been so happy with how consistently good it runs!  I just haven't worried about it until now.  Last night I jiggled it and pushed in on the individual wires.  I'm a little worried about trying to pull it apart in this cold weather and breaking the plastic.  I do have wire piercing leads for the MM, when it gets warmer outside I may check the connections with that.

 

Are there fuses hidden elsewhere that I haven't seen? 

 

So.....  I need to check the ignition module.  I need to check that last fuse.  I need to check the 9 pin connector, which may grow into checking the whole stupid thing so I don't have this problem in a future winter.

 

I also need to figure out why the headlights suddenly stopped working, I assume at the same time.  I replaced one about the time I ran it last and they both worked.  It seems strange if this is a coincidence.

 

Another strange coincidence is that when I tried starting it this past week, the oil warning light behaved as usual - it would blink when the ignition was on.  Some time in the process of trying to jump start it, that light quit blinking.  It does still light up when you hit the test button.

 

The behavior of the lights has me wondering if by coincidence I've grown both a wiring problem AND a starting problem at the same time, or if they're related.  I was really hoping that it would turn out that the things are related and someone would say "hey dummy! Fix this connection that you never noticed" - that's the easy button I was hoping for.  Looks like I'm in for a grind.

 

Thanks again everyone, I'm grateful for your time.

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Tims520