Long Shot.

[Racinbob 11,050]

In the 70's thru the 90's and maybe longer the home window world pretty much revolved around Andersen windows. Sure, they are good but the marketing was excellent. The Narroline series was the big seller. That's what we have in this house built in 97. Considering their age they are still in pretty darn good shape. No leaking panes and they still are airtight. But the years show and the boss lady wants new windows. I'm a big advocate of vinyl windows. We've had them and when we built a new house in 88 we installed new construction vinyl windows Being in the height of the Andersen window period many folks thought we were nuts. We never regretted it. 

 

OK, back to today. I'm not really wanting a company to come in and install vinyl replacement windows. Many reasons but that's just the case. Anderson makes a Narroline window conversion kit. I'm liking what I see........a lot. It's a simple install with absolutely no disruption of the trim inside or out. I've already priced them and I like that too. After doing all the measuring and triple checking I got that yesterday. I told the guy I would quadruple check his work as well as mine and come back in on Friday. I'm done checking.

 

By some chance does anyone have experience with these? Whew! Long winded for a simple little question. 

[Lane Ranger 10,968]

Yes someone does!   Our rear room on our home was designed by the architect son in law of the previous owner,  Andersen Windows were the install on 1992.   We moved in in 2002 - twenty years ago.

 

So our old  house had many windows and two furnaces.  I had experience with window conversion kits from Marvin Windows that converted old windows with iron ballasts and single panes to double pain with plastic sides that allowed the sashes to be opened inside to clean on top and bottom.  These were great and at the time about $200 per window. I think I changed eight windows.

I went to the local Andersen Window distributor in our area and ordered my first two window kits about 2006.  The old dual glass sash was not leaking but is was dated.  I decided after reviewing all the options to buy love E glass with radon gas in the insulating unit.  I bought four window kits as that had the oldest units.  The rest are motorized skylights and ash no longer made by Andersen. 
 

I am very pleased with them and easy to install yourself.  I was able to match the wood stain used on our originals and trim with no problems.  No trim had to be removed or changed.

 

I attached some pics with a view of the white plastic channels used on the frame to allow tracks for the new sash.

 

We do have vinyl windows in the older portions of our house that were put in by previous owners probably in late 1980s or early 1990s.  Several have leaking insulating units (double glass) .

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Lane Ranger

[Racinbob 11,050]

2 hours ago, Lane Ranger said:

Yes someone does!  

 

Nothing surprises me anymore on this site. Not only the love for red tractors but the diversity of knowledge, experience and talent. Who would have thought you could get a window answer on a tractor forum?

I tend to over analyze some things to the point of driving myself and my wife crazy. This has been one of those things. Measuring, drawings, research, pictures, remeasuring, phone calls, remeasuring yet again...............We are replacing 19 windows and they certainly aren't $200 anymore so it's good chunk of change. But I will say that you don't need to order them directly from Anderson to get the best price. Go through Home Depot (or others) and they will go direct and get much better pricing (about 35%). They have no problem with me installing them myself. Gas filled low E is standard now and they have other options. No trim work inside or out and after the first couple I figure about an hour per window. As with you, the existing windows aren't leaking but just dated and don't tilt in for cleaning. 

Thanks for posting Lane. We'll be forking over the money Friday morning and I'll breath a bit easier now. 

[Pullstart 62,837]

4 hours ago, Racinbob said:

I'm not really wanting a company to come in and install vinyl replacement windows.

I feel you Bob.  However, I recently hired All Weather Seal to replace quite a few of my windows in the house.  I realized their triple pane, sun ray tinted, super everything.  I couldn’t install a better material for cheaper myself.  I couldn’t even install a cheaper material myself, for the same price as their quote.

[Rob J. 1,941]

While vinyl is the standard there is a new composite material now that’s supposed to be superior to vinyl. I don’t know too much about it but it’s worth checking into. Had I not changed all my old wood windows for new vinyl ones a couple years ago I’d have that info handy. 

[ri702bill 8,316]

I had the 26 windows replaced on my two family home about 12 years ago. I opted for all the bells and whistles offered at the time - no regrets. I used a local company  - Custom Built - to build the windows. They have NO inventory, everything is built to order. A couple of advantages - you choose the construction and options, there is no need to resize the window opening smaller to fit off the shelf store bought windows that are meant for newer homes. One surprize as the measurements were taken - the second floor windows are all about 2 inches narrower and shorter than those of the first floor! The guy doing the measuring said that this was common 100 years ago - it had to do with the higher elevation and the angle of the sun... along with a cost savings??

I was so pleased with them I replaced my cellar windows the following year.

Bill

[Pullstart 62,837]

 plus an unlimited lifetime warranty.  Rocks from mowing?  Billy threw a ball?  Cat tore the screen?  We’ll be right out!  The company I used is the only place in Michigan who uses “Z brand” windows, manufactured in Ohio.  They select only one company per state to represent them… a pride and quality thing.  The gas charge ratings on a window sticker only have to prove that they were charged to that level on the day of construction.  The company we chose claimed to go x% over that charge rating (significant difference) to assure the windows will be charged for years to come.  Of course they had a heat lamp, window samples, frame samples, etc.   

 

Even if All a weather Seal of West MI couldn’t help you Bob, they might be able to put you in touch with whomever in IN sells the same brand.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Pullstart

[Racinbob 11,050]

9 hours ago, Rob J. said:

While vinyl is the standard there is a new composite material now that’s supposed to be superior to vinyl. I don’t know too much about it but it’s worth checking into. Had I not changed all my old wood windows for new vinyl ones a couple years ago I’d have that info handy. 

 

I think you're talking about Fibrex. Renewal by Andersen uses it in their replacement windows. Better than vinyl? Maybe but time will tell. 

 

1 hour ago, ri702bill said:

I had the 26 windows replaced on my two family home about 12 years ago. I opted for all the bells and whistles offered at the time - no regrets. I used a local company  - Custom Built - to build the windows. They have NO inventory, everything is built to order. A couple of advantages - you choose the construction and options, there is no need to resize the window opening smaller to fit off the shelf store bought windows that are meant for newer homes. One surprize as the measurements were taken - the second floor windows are all about 2 inches narrower and shorter than those of the first floor! The guy doing the measuring said that this was common 100 years ago - it had to do with the higher elevation and the angle of the sun... along with a cost savings??

I was so pleased with them I replaced my cellar windows the following year.

Bill

 

Back when the Andersen Narroline windows were the hot ticket they didn't build the window to fit the opening. They only made stock sizes and you had to provide the RO to fit. These conversion kits we will be ordering only work on the Narroline windows. Because they weren't custom sized is why they can offer this conversion. They have a chart with 56 sizes. You measure the clear part of the glass to the 1/16" and match it to the size code then go from there with the options. It's pretty slick. 

 

11 hours ago, Pullstart said:

I feel you Bob.  However, I recently hired All Weather Seal to replace quite a few of my windows in the house.  I realized their triple pane, sun ray tinted, super everything.  I couldn’t install a better material for cheaper myself.  I couldn’t even install a cheaper material myself, for the same price as their quote.

 

I love vinyl windows. The first time we had them installed (in Florida) we had 6-8 outfits come out to give us the sales pitch. We settled on Window World and couldn't have been happier. The salesman was a good ol boy and didn't push one bit. One of the very few salesmen I enjoyed dealing with. Even their competition knew that if we got them involved their own product was doomed. Not because their windows were superior but they were as good as any and nobody could touch their installed price. They have the same lifetime warranty for anything happening to them. We even tested that once. There's a code on each sash that they keep on file. I called them with the code of that sash and within two weeks that came knocking with a new sash. 

After we moved back here the first house had cheap vinyl replacements. I think they were from Menards. I didn't know how the Window World branch up here would be like but I called them. Same story. I met him when he pulled in the driveway and after chatting a bit I told him not to bother with the sales pitch and leave the heat lamp and other sales junk in the car. They got the job. For the most part they have a one price system. Basically a double hung is a double hung. Because of that we pretty much knew what the price would be save for price increases. It would also be a test for their 'one price' method. Of the 19 windows 13 are quite large with 6 of those at the top of the chart. They were scheduled for yesterday but then the conversion kits entered the picture. I canceled the WW appointment Tuesday. 

Keep in mind Kevin, these conversions ONLY work on the Andersen Narroline windows that were once so popular. They will not adapt to anything else. Once I got to the point of wanting to use them I priced them per the MSRP. That price came to about what we figured Window World would be. Even at about the same price I wanted the conversions. Getting them for about 2/3's was just frosting. It's the same story for whoever would come out to replace the windows. Installers swarming the house like ants. Disruption of the exterior and possibly the interior. All of which I hate. By using the conversions I will do it myself, there's absolutely no disruption of any woodwork inside or out. I can do it 100% from the inside and even have the screen in place to keep bugs out. It's a big win in my books. Geez! My wife even agrees on this one. 

On the downside. The warranty is 20 years. But I'm realistic. At that time I'll be 88. If I'm still kicking and able to keep this property up I'll worry about it then. Lets face it though. A lifetime warranty at my age isn't worth as much as it is to a young pup. Buy, Andersen has been around for well over 100 years. Line up a bunch of window manufactures and try to determine who will still be here in 20 years. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Racinbob

[Pullstart 62,837]

31 minutes ago, Racinbob said:

Keep in mind Kevin, these conversions ONLY work on the Andersen Narroline windows that were once so popular. They will not adapt to anything else.

That may be true for typical replacements.  They did tell me if I were to move a window bay or add on to the house, they can also do new construction installs.  It might be worth a call.

[ri702bill 8,316]

27 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

also do new construction installs

I wanted to replace the small wood frame double hung windows in my garage - they were way too short in height to get a 20" window fan into the opening for painting....

I went the new construction route, as the sill plate had water damage. Made a new perimeter frame from 2 x 6 PT, removed the shingles in that area and the old frame. New construction windows have a nailing flange on the top, bottom, and sides that make the installation easy and weather tight. reinstalled the shingle puzzle pieces - good to go. Caught a deal on a pair of double pane single hung premade vinyl windows at a closeout price - bought them FIRST to size the frame box. Only the lower sash moves, but large enough to fit the fan in either window.... Added bonus - a storage "shelf" above each window for tractor parts......

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by ri702bill

[Racinbob 11,050]

31 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

That may be true for typical replacements.  They did tell me if I were to move a window bay or add on to the house, they can also do new construction installs.  It might be worth a call.

 

Yea, most of them have new construction windows. When I built the house in 88 flanges were an option. I did order them but ya know, I don't think I'd use them anymore. At our previous house one of the garages had wood windows that were in were in terrible shape. The sills were crumbling as well as areas of the brickmold. I had them measure and make me 4 replacements but don't install them. I rebuild the framing using all PVC. They make a fastener called Cortex to install the PVC. You run the fastener in with a special but and it countersinks the head. Tap in the furnished PVC plugs and it totally disappears. With the windows made to size I really just had to make sure things were square. Those frames and sills will never rot again. Doing it this was if by some chance I did ever have to replace the window it would be an absolute breeze. If I ever build another house I think I'd go this route rather than new construction windows, 

[pfrederi 17,729]

Just had renewal by Andersen replace 4 big double hung windows.  A long haul.  Ordered them 6 Jan 2022. Finally showed up to install in late July. ... Supply chain... Installers ripped out all 4 old windows then brought up the new ones... too small.  Had to use extra molding to cover up the gaps.  For that much money I was not happy.  They tell you to leave them locked for at least 48 hours.  Waited a bit longer and then found you couldn't relock two of them.  Took a couple weeks and they sent out a guy to put in some shims and replace the latch that broke.  He couldn't get then to work either.  Another wait and another visit also unable to get it to work right.  Finally sent out an experienced measurer installer.  Spent an hour probing the frames and looking at a couple pics I took during the install when it was obvious the windows were too small.  Said Okay you get 4 new windows.  So in December two installers come...this time did one window at a time and all is well...They are fibrex type.  I had a Anderson fibrex bay window put in  a few years ago by an independent contractor. Has held up well..

[Racinbob 11,050]

Well, we're headed to Valpo to get the windows ordered. @Lane Ranger did you notice all the basically useless information on the spec sheet. I say useless but it's just not relevant to what these conversion kits are. I finally got things sorted out and comfortable with what I'm ordering. As most of you know many of the workers at Home Depot or any other place don't know the difference between a screwdriver and a paint brush. Not so with their window 'guru'. Sharp guy. We've had several conversations to get this sorted out. He doesn't sell a lot of these because they are so specific to this one type of window and he admitted it was somewhat of a learning process for him too. It's suppose to take about 5 weeks for delivery so that means 5 weeks of fussing, fidgeting and worrying about them.  

[Lane Ranger 10,968]

Andersen Windows are very much over information on their website and on the technical information provided.  However,  I think that has to do with the wide variety of audiences that they are targeting in marketing their product.   I very much like that you can dig into their website for minute details about when a window ceased manufacture and how various changes in design occurred.  For instance although my motorized awning windows are no longer made, Andersen makes a much better geared opening metal flange setup that I have had to purchase twice when my  windows had an old one break. The local sales folks were not much help but the Andersen website and the internet were!

 

Some of the information may be overkill but not for someone looking for those exact facts!

 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Lane Ranger

[Racinbob 11,050]

1 hour ago, Lane Ranger said:

Some of the information may be overkill but not for someone looking for those exact facts!

 

The problem is not so much the irrelevant information as it is the incorrect information. For example. The sash dimensions were out in left field. I finally figured out that they were calling the sash the complete assembled unit. I would have thought window people would know what a sash is. They did list the same dimensions under 'overall unit' size. 

 

Anyways, they are ordered. Delivered to our door in about 5 weeks. Something that is seemingly out of the ordinary these days in the exceptional people we dealt with at a big box store. The salesman, the store manager and the head cashier who happened to be the wife of the salesman were all great. The CFO of the house saw some things that equated to some savings here and there. She was not about to pass that up. She got every penny there was. I only wish there was something I could think of to tell her on the drive home. "You know, you could have saved $xxx if you would have done this". 

[Lane Ranger 10,968]

On the way home you should have said : " Yes dear, good job" !  
 

 

[Racinbob 11,050]

15 minutes ago, Lane Ranger said:

On the way home you should have said : " Yes dear, good job" !  

 

Oh Lane, that's just so not me. She would have replied "Who are you and what did you do with my husband?"

[wh500special 2,170]

On 1/25/2023 at 4:57 PM, Lane Ranger said:

 

….  I decided after reviewing all the options to buy low E glass with radon gas in the insulating unit…

 

 

 

Oops, you probably meant Argon gas.  Radon is what infiltrates basements.  Although it would probably work just as well as Argon for this purpose…

 

That aside, I am impressed that Bob found the exact reply he needed so quickly.  Kudos!!!
 

Steve

[Lane Ranger 10,968]

7 minutes ago, wh500special said:

Oops, you probably meant Argon gas.  Radon is what infiltrates basements.  Although it would probably work just as well as Argon for this purpose…

 

That aside, I am impressed that Bob found the exact reply he needed so quickly.  Kudos!!!
 

Steve

yes sir slips happen often now!

[Racinbob 11,050]

They said it would take 5 weeks but 3 days short of 4 weeks and here they are. I opened up one of the small units to see what all was in there. With the simplicity of installing these there wasn't all that much. Left and right replacement jamb assemblies, a few odds and ends and, of course the 2 sashes. We need to wait until things warm up more but I'm looking forward to getting started. My SWAG estimate is about 2 hours each (after the first one). The only supplies needed are sealant and 2.5" drywall screws which I'll use stainless. 

 

As mentioned, one of the biggest things and almost a must for the boss is the complete lack of disruption to any of the trim or window frames. Being able to do them at our own pace as weather and time permits is also pretty cool. I had a little chuckle with the delivery guys. They called when they were an hour away. They asked if we had the 'workers' there to help unload. I told them "Yup, they're all here". When they got here my wife and I met them in the garage and they asked where the 'workers' were. I told them they were looking at them. The sad part was that they were 'kids' and I guess they figured they needed a big crew to help unload 19 boxes. The only units my wife couldn't handle herself were the biggest ones. 

 

Once we get this done we may find the hardest part is figuring out what to do with the 39 thermopane window sashes we removed. 

 

[953 nut 55,192]

22 hours ago, Racinbob said:

Once we get this done we may find the hardest part is figuring out what to do with the 39 thermopane window sashes we removed.

           Put the word out to a garden club, they will make great cold frames or even a small shed greenhouse.

[Racinbob 11,050]

1 hour ago, 953 nut said:

           Put the word out to a garden club, they will make great cold frames or even a small shed greenhouse.

 

That's a good idea. I was thinking some sort of greenhouse. I just don't want them to end up in a landfill.