3-speed Unidrive bearings and seals

[backlash012 61]

Hello, everyone,

My name is Dieter and I come from Austria.

I got the tip to write in this forum, maybe someone can help me.

I have a modified wheel horse tractor (picture attached) with a 3 speed gearbox that is leaking in the axle area.

Can someone please tell me what bearings and seals I need here?
I measured the outside diameter ~ 32.14mm and the inside diameter (axle diameter) ~ 25.36mm.

Thank you very much!

Kind regards

Dieter

 

[Achto 27,742]

4 hours ago, backlash012 said:

Can someone please tell me what bearings and seals I need here?

 

  Awesome looking tractor !!!

 

I see that you have the manual with the factory numbers. Most of the bearings & seals are a common size. Here is a post that has the cross reference numbers.

 

 

The large bearing (number 2 in the picture) does not usually go bad and is only available through one of our vendors. This vendor also has complete bearing & seal kits for transmissions.

https://wheelhorsepartsandmore.com/product-category/bearings/

Edited January 17, 2023 by Achto

[backlash012 61]

Oh thank you,

I will check if it is necessary to swap the big two inner ones.

I'm not sure about the outer.
There are two similar ones available but with a big difference in price.

Do you know the difference or are they the same.

 

https://www.123kugellager.at/lagern-BA1616-Z#container-tech-schema

https://www.123kugellager.at/lagern-B1616-TORRINGTON#container-tech-schema

Edited January 17, 2023 by backlash012

[Pullstart 63,080]

42 minutes ago, backlash012 said:

Oh thank you,

I will check if it is necessary to swap the big two inner ones.

I'm not sure about the outer.
There are two similar ones available but with a big difference in price.

Do you know the difference or are they the same.

 

https://www.123kugellager.at/lagern-BA1616-Z#container-tech-schema

https://www.123kugellager.at/lagern-B1616-TORRINGTON#container-tech-schema

Hello, and awesome looking rig!  Austria is a beautiful place, how close to the Zugspitze are you?

 

I can’t find any difference between BA1616 and B1616.  I also found a J1616 on EBay for even less.  There are some new old stock ones in Alabama for 4.89 USD but I am not sure if they ship internationally.

[Achto 27,742]

Only difference that I see is that BA1616-Z has metric measurement's and B1616 is in SAE measurement's. Both equal the same.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Achto

[953 nut 55,734]

           Any 1616 roller bearing should work. Many automotive supply stores or industrial supply stores that sell belt pullies and chain sprockets will also sell bearings. 

Perhaps if you were to post an introduction in our European section you could find someone in Europe that can be of greater help.  https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/forum/77-euro-introductions/

Edited January 17, 2023 by 953 nut

[backlash012 61]

Hi, 

 

Thanks, yes we have a realy nice place here   From me to the Zugspitze are round 450km. 

What i see is that the B1616 is a full needle bearing and the BA1616Z has only every second place a needle. 
Could that be? Sorry but I am not a mechanic  

 

I'm just a bit scared that the BA1616 isn't as strong with only half the needle count.

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by backlash012

[953 nut 55,734]

@Tractorhead, @Maxwell-8, @gloubigoulba, can any of you help @backlash012 find a good source of the bearings and seals he needs?

[Pullstart 63,080]

I couldn’t find detailed pictures like you did.  I would surely go with the extra needles in the bearing!  We have a max speed of 7 mph or 11.25 kph.  We aren’t flying down the road… well most of us anyway.  
 

Here is my current tractor project 

 

 

[backlash012 61]

2 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

I couldn’t find detailed pictures like you did.  I would surely go with the extra needles in the bearing!  We have a max speed of 7 mph or 11.25 kph.  We aren’t flying down the road… well most of us anyway.  
 

Here is my current tractor project 

 

 

Ok i will go with the full mounted bearings. 

Nice project you have there!!!

I also installed a little bit more power

[Pullstart 63,080]

Just now, 953 nut said:

@Tractorhead, @Maxwell-8, @gloubigoulba, can any of you help @backlash012 find a good source of the bearings and seals he needs?

 @backlash012, Stephan @Tractorhead might have a spare transmission if you find anything wrong once inside.  You will need to split the case to replace these bearings.  They don’t take much work, but some patience and care to assemble it correctly again.

 

Check out this section, @stevasaurus has rebuilt quite a few different transmissions and many have very detailed videos to follow.  
 

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/forum/144-transmissions/

[Pullstart 63,080]

2 minutes ago, backlash012 said:

more power

nice!  What is the rating on that engine?  We have many variations of the Honda clone available, they all kind of look the same via pictures from 6 hp up to over 13 hp.

[backlash012 61]

3 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

 @backlash012, Stephan @Tractorhead might have a spare transmission if you find anything wrong once inside.  You will need to split the case to replace these bearings.  They don’t take much work, but some patience and care to assemble it correctly again.

 

Check out this section, @stevasaurus has rebuilt quite a few different transmissions and many have very detailed videos to follow.  
 

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/forum/144-transmissions/

Super, thanks, 
I actualy will split the gearbox and only excahnge the outer bearings and seals for the first. Than we will see.

[backlash012 61]

2 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

nice!  What is the rating on that engine?  We have many variations of the Honda clone available, they all kind of look the same via pictures from 6 hp up to over 13 hp.

thanks, it is a Rote enginge with 270ccm and max 6,5kW.
Most i need the tractor for shipping snow. 

[Pullstart 63,080]

7 minutes ago, backlash012 said:

Super, thanks, 
I actualy will split the gearbox and only excahnge the outer bearings and seals for the first. Than we will see.

There is a right and a wrong for how to pop it apart.  I believe it is right side down, when in the bench.  Best of luck!  Make sure to use a strip of electric tape over the keyway slots and plenty of grease when installing the axles through the seals, or driving seals over the axles.  

Edited January 17, 2023 by Pullstart

[backlash012 61]

4 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

Make sure to use a strip of electric tape over the keyway slots 

Thanks, the rest is clear but for what you mean electric tape when i only take of the halfe case? What i know until now, the left side must be up. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by backlash012

[wallfish 17,078]

Are you sure those axle bearings need to be replaced? How did you determine the bearings are bad?

The axle shaft will move in and out a little but it should have very minimal movement up/down/front/back. If the bearings are tight with minimal movement you can just change the seals without opening the trans. Might as well change them all too, Axles, brake and input shafts.

A loose hub on the axle shaft could mimic bad axle bearings so best to thoroughly inspect first. Jack it up and remove the tires. Then try and move the axles.

 

[Pullstart 63,080]

41 minutes ago, backlash012 said:

Thanks, the rest is clear but for what you mean electric tape when i only take of the halfe case? What i know until now, the left side must be up. 

The axle shaft has a sharp keyway that can cut the seal.  If you place a strip of tape along the axle and over the end of the shaft, then grease it well, it’ll slide together without damaging the seal.

I do agree with @wallfish, that the axle seal might be bad and the bearing is still tight.  It would be a great idea to use a mag base and an indicator to measure for bearing and axle slop.

 

 

 

[backlash012 61]

A now i understand why ! Thanks good to know. 

The bearing is for sure K.O. i can move the axle by hand approx. a mm.

[Pullstart 63,080]

Good reason to pop the case open and inspect for other damage.  It’s wild how badly these can be abused, and still keep on keepin’ on.  

[backlash012 61]

40 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

It’s wild how badly these can be abused, and still keep on keepin’ on.  

Thats sad and true.  

[oliver2-44 9,847]

if you split it open,might as well replace the input and brake shaft seal.

[backlash012 61]

So wonderfull,

 

I disasambled all and so far so good. 
One outer axle bearing was totaly gone. 

Also one tooth of the differential, i think it got one bearing needle, but i that will not be a big problem. 

 

My biggest problem ist the axle self. 

It has now instead of 25.4mm, 25.0mm on the position of the bearing. 

Someone knows a solution or is that still useable? 

Edited January 17, 2023 by backlash012

[wallfish 17,078]

How about remove the axle from the differential and have it machined so you can flip the ends.

 

 

[backlash012 61]

It is the 1" diameter and 10.5/8" length version.