ri702bill 8,318 #1 Posted January 14, 2023 All: We are all well aware the our beloved Lucas X-tra Heavy Duty Green Polyurea Grease is no longer readily available unless you are willing to pay a scalping premium for it. I conferred with our local Grease Guru, @peter lena, aka Slippery Pete on what I found as a possible short term substitute, although it it is not the exact formulation. He agrees it is NOT the same - not surprized as both are manufactured by separate companies to the specification given them by the seller. OK - here goes - don't kill me, Im just the messenger...... Seems the John Deere sells their version of a green Polyurea premium grease that is readily available and "reasonably" priced. The larger quantity ordered, the better the price. I took pictures of both the products and the labeling for comparison. By its makeup, polyurea grease does not play well with lithium based greases - the spec sheets for both say so. They do play well with each other though since they share the same base. They do both carry the highest Lubrication and Grease Institute rating - both are premium greases. The difference is in the working temperature ranges - the Dropping Point for the Lucas is 580 degrees F, the John Deere TY6341 is 380 degrees F. Both would be fine, in my opinion, for low speed applications like front axle pivot and slindles, along with lower steering components. My only area of concern is the high RPM bearings on cutting deck spindles and snowblower augers. I recall the slindles being warm after use in July, but not to the point of sizzle and fizzle when washed down. I actually called John Deere's Tech Support 800 number to ask if there were any Technical Service Bulletins issued specifying where their Polyurea grease should not be used. (Got nowhere on that - got shuffled over to a Customer Service Rep - explained my request - she offered no direct answers but two choices. I could ask the large regional JD service dealer for their opinion, or get this - fill out an email request on the main website for Tech Support and they would contact me AFTER I gave a credit card number - they charge for their Tech Support. No - I did not persue that. Yes, I know there those amongst us that would rather undure the thrill of either gargling double edged razor blades or being the recipient of a crushed glass enema before they consider using a JD product on their Wheel Horses. Your options are few: 1. Pay the scalper price for Lucas 2. Park your Ponies until Chemtool rebuilds after the fire and gets back into production.(IF they do continue to produce this product) 3. Do nothing - no more grease, just run them. 4, Dis-assemble all the greased components, flush them, switch over to a Lithium based grease. 5. Try a tube to grease your Mother-in-law's tractor. All jokes aside - if anyone can offer another worthy substitute, please add it to this post. Bill Pictures... 1 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 48,815 #2 Posted January 14, 2023 At the risk of incurring the wrath of the slippery one ...what's wrong with the off the shelf farm & barn grease? 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 8,318 #3 Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) @WHX?? - Jim, are either one of the Polyurea based?? I am looking for a compatible substitute. I got on the Mystik website - seems they do not offer a Polyurea based grease in their lineup...... Edited January 14, 2023 by ri702bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 8,318 #4 Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, WHX?? said: At the risk of incurring the wrath of the slippery one You are on your own now - no Wingman.... Edited January 14, 2023 by ri702bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Racinbob 11,076 #5 Posted January 14, 2023 1 hour ago, WHX?? said: At the risk of incurring the wrath of the slippery one ...what's wrong with the off the shelf farm & barn grease? I'll be your wingman Jim. I've never had any issues with what I use. I'll stick with Valvoline products but there's plenty of other good stuff out there. 5 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter lena 8,623 #6 Posted January 14, 2023 @ri702bill no flogging needed , from what I have seen , if any engine driven part , attachment , does not have a hi temp recovering grease , it will tell you, with a whining groaning song . green color , is not the spec of a grease , lots of substitutes out there, to grab a sale . also regularly check out auto parts for their grease supply , still think a multiple shared order is the way to go on pricing . also clean out existing beargrease , before Lucas X-HD . any bearing that gets hot , and angularly stressed , mule drive / spindle bearings , needs a lubricant that will live in that zone . pto cone bearings , none of mine make any noise , and spin up without effort , deck I sold to a guy , was stunned at its ease of movement , isn't that what you want ? anything I suggest is what I use / do , have many hours / years on it . don't have to win , make the problem go away , thats what I do , pete Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter lena 8,623 #7 Posted January 14, 2023 @ri702bill that polyurea rating is also vital to the pto cone needle bearing , minimal grease that will not sling off onto the clutch face , pete Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 8,318 #8 Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, peter lena said: @ri702bill no flogging needed , from what I have seen , if any engine driven part , attachment , does not have a hi temp recovering grease , it will tell you, with a whining groaning song . green color , is not the spec of a grease , lots of substitutes out there, to grab a sale . also regularly check out auto parts for their grease supply , still think a multiple shared order is the way to go on pricing . also clean out existing beargrease , before Lucas X-HD . any bearing that gets hot , and angularly stressed , mule drive / spindle bearings , needs a lubricant that will live in that zone . pto cone bearings , none of mine make any noise , and spin up without effort , deck I sold to a guy , was stunned at its ease of movement , isn't that what you want ? anything I suggest is what I use / do , have many hours / years on it . don't have to win , make the problem go away , thats what I do , pete I forgot about the mule drive bearings - ditto on the cone PTO (probably a more severe higher temp application).... Maybe Lucas the toasty ones, JD the rest...?? Edited January 14, 2023 by ri702bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,100 #9 Posted January 14, 2023 We ain't greasing the space shuttle here. Use a good quality grease. sit back and have a beer! 7 4 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter lena 8,623 #10 Posted January 14, 2023 @ri702bill that would work , use the hi temp on hi speed bearings , j/d would work on the rest . initially when I started on my deck bearings , was not until I looked at every related bearing that I make the total changeover . thats why I regularly refer to it , that entire set up can and should spin up with ease , no screaming / smoking clutch , no noisy deck , pto lever set up , solid / smooth . probably have very similar stuff as you , once changed / proven , have it on my 3 units , pete 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Racinbob 11,076 #11 Posted January 14, 2023 9 minutes ago, squonk said: We ain't greasing the space shuttle here. Use a good quality grease. sit back and have a beer! Exactly. I've had no issues in over 6 decades with what I use. Keeping things lubricated is 99% of it. 5 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 8,318 #12 Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, squonk said: We ain't greasing the space shuttle here. Use a good quality grease. sit back and have a beer! Mike - agreed - but the whole purpose of this post was to see if anyone found a good substitute for the Lucas green grease - 100% compatible... OK, since you offered - what about your homeboys at NAPA - do they sell a Polyurea grease?? The chain of local NAPA stores near me got sold a couple of years back - the usable old website is gone, their new one is a joke loaded with frustration... Edited January 14, 2023 by ri702bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rokon 64 #13 Posted January 15, 2023 9 hours ago, squonk said: We ain't greasing the space shuttle here. Use a good quality grease. sit back and have a beer! What about the space shuttle transporter??? That baby uses tons of grease! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHX?? 48,815 #14 Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, squonk said: We ain't greasing the space shuttle here. Use a good quality grease. sit back and have a beer! I was gonna go that route Sqounky but now you get 40 lashes with the grease gun hose. I'll go another route... what makes this polyican'tspell it grease special to warrant it's use not to mention the price or worse going with green and yello? Can I still have the 🍺?? Edited January 15, 2023 by WHX?? 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 8,318 #15 Posted January 15, 2023 Jim - yes we both can have a beer or two. I switched over to the green grease about 6 years ago - @peter lena was absolutely correct - all the ball bearings ran quieter with less heat. Even the gears on the 854 RM-366 were quieter, less heat and the grease stayed put. I even use this on the power feed gears on the milling machine, was using the Red & Tacky, but had to regrease weekly. Cleaned them up, regreased with the green stuff, can go about a month and there is no slung off grease on the inside of the gear guard anymore..... Time for that beer Bill 1 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sjoemie himself 3,068 #16 Posted January 15, 2023 19 hours ago, ri702bill said: I recall the slindles being warm after use in July, but not to the point of sizzle and fizzle when washed down If your spindles do get thát hot (boiling water 212°F or 100°C) there's no more helping them with any amount, or brand, of grease. That means your bearings are either shot or too full of grease. Yes that is a 'thing'.. So IMHO the 318°F rating of the JD grease should be more than enough. Other grease manufacturers that come to mind: Kendall, Total, Eurol, Mobil, Kroon, SKF (from the bearings), Liqui Moly etc. etc. Like others said, it's not the space shuttle, it's a lawnmower 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 8,318 #17 Posted January 15, 2023 4 minutes ago, sjoemie himself said: If your spindles do get thát hot (boiling water 212°F or 100°C) there's no more helping them with any amount, or brand, of grease. That means your bearings are either shot or too full of grease. Yes that is a 'thing'.. So IMHO the 318°F rating of the JD grease should be more than enough. Other grease manufacturers that come to mind: Kendall, Total, Eurol, Mobil, Kroon, SKF (from the bearings), Liqui Moly etc. etc. Like others said, it's not the space shuttle, it's a lawnmower The Space Shuttles needed O-rings, my tractors need grease. Bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sjoemie himself 3,068 #18 Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) I've found a Motorex grease which looks promising. Droppoint of 250°C or 480°F Polyurea based grease, developed for high pressure bearings. See link and PDF for more.. yes it is in German so you might want/have to use Google translate a bit https://motorex.com/de-ch/fett-6400--20500?category=5910 FETT 6400_de.pdf Edited January 15, 2023 by sjoemie himself Added info 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Retired Wrencher 5,454 #19 Posted January 15, 2023 18 hours ago, squonk said: We ain't greasing the space shuttle here. Use a good quality grease. sit back and have a beer! Ditto Mike 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 8,318 #20 Posted January 15, 2023 1 hour ago, sjoemie himself said: I've found a Motorex grease which looks promising. Droppoint of 250°C or 480°F Polyurea based grease, developed for high pressure bearing Almost there - it only carries a NGLI 1 rating, not the higher rating of the Lucas & JD. Not sure if it available here in the US.... Bill 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sjoemie himself 3,068 #21 Posted January 15, 2023 40 minutes ago, ri702bill said: Almost there Did you check the others from the link? This was just the first one I looked at to be honest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Digger 66 3,478 #22 Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) 21 hours ago, peter lena said: @ri702bill that polyurea rating is also vital to the pto cone needle bearing , minimal grease that will not sling off onto the clutch face , pete If you're looking for a grease that won't fling off , Isoflex is pricey but is used on ATV Primary clutch One-Way bearings that can spin in excess of 8K revs and not fling off . https://www.amazon.com/isoflex-grease/s?k=isoflex+grease Edited January 15, 2023 by Digger 66 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 8,318 #23 Posted January 15, 2023 3 hours ago, ri702bill said: That means your bearings are either shot or too full of grease. Yes that is a 'thing'.. As a Mfg Engineer, I learned the quantity of grease dispensed into the geartrain of our Actuators was rather critical. Too little is an obvous issue, but too much is bad too. Electromechanical devices get sluggish at -20 degrees . the viscosity of the grease goes way up. Most newer vehicles will throw a trouble code if the Actuator does not complete its task within the specified time... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oliver2-44 9,743 #24 Posted January 15, 2023 2 hours ago, sjoemie himself said: Did you check the others from the link? This was just the first one I looked at to be honest Sjoemie If you find some grease made by KLUBER (a German company). Check it’s ratings. Before I retired we used it in large heavily loaded rotary actuators that opened floodgates. Very good grease. It was expensive to get to US, but maybe not so much in Europe. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 8,318 #25 Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) @Digger 66 They must be very proud of their products - pricey. The three criteria I referred to were that it has to be a replacement , readily available and reasonably priced. Edited January 15, 2023 by ri702bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
