Engine oil flush?

[Wild Bill 633 846]

18 hours ago, Brockport Bill said:

does it make a difference if "conventional oil" is mixed in an engine with synthetic oil --- i assume not since they sell "syn blend"

In order to get new rings to seat, you have to use conventional oil. After the rings seat, then you can chance to synthetic oil.

I do not believe in synthetic blend oil, a mix of synthetic and conventional oil. My belief is either go fully synthetic or not at all.

Small Engine Syn Oil.pdf

[peter lena 8,632]

@Brockport Bill  bill  the thing I  notice most is the running ease , also have to add , there are no other issues  with the engines , if there were  , I  would have gotten after them .  realise  the ZDDP  is an issue to many , but  I  just use the bottle measurement  recommendations  for use. this is what  I  do , regularly experiment  on a problem , and make it go away .  also found that  carb linkage detailing , enhances its function . original set up , loose / sloppy  lubricate all movement points , tighten up spring pull points , eliminate play . add clearance to any drag area.  that alone will enhance quick starts . always refer to where you were , on a problem , is it better ? work easier ? also detail the hell out of , levers , cable slide , cable spring pull, regularly make changes , so this is regular stuff to me , but wrong , and you can't do that to others . did this on one horse , verified its gain , added it to the other 2 , now they all run / function the same way , thats how I  like it  , pete

[Brockport Bill 1,664]

6 hours ago, peter lena said:

@Brockport Bill  bill  the thing I  notice most is the running ease , also have to add , there are no other issues  with the engines , if there were  , I  would have gotten after them .  realise  the ZDDP  is an issue to many , but  I  just use the bottle measurement  recommendations  for use. this is what  I  do , regularly experiment  on a problem , and make it go away .  also found that  carb linkage detailing , enhances its function . original set up , loose / sloppy  lubricate all movement points , tighten up spring pull points , eliminate play . add clearance to any drag area.  that alone will enhance quick starts . always refer to where you were , on a problem , is it better ? work easier ? also detail the hell out of , levers , cable slide , cable spring pull, regularly make changes , so this is regular stuff to me , but wrong , and you can't do that to others . did this on one horse , verified its gain , added it to the other 2 , now they all run / function the same way , thats how I  like it  , pete

Peter: In my early wh years following buying my 312-8 in 1989, the tractor was, (and still is,) so reliable that the human brain is easy to fall into a maintenance laziness -------- WH tractors are so good, and so dependable, its easy to just ignore basic maintenance because the tractor just keeps running and running, just turn the switch -- over the years i became more disciplined of doing routine maintenance  -- and now i just have learned sooo much more of the "to do list" -- and of course RSq is soooo helpful to know the lesser pointers like the list you noted -- last point --------- the first time i actually took many parts of tractor apart i realized how somewhat neglectful i had been -- especially for tractor items we can't readily see -- now i am more attentive with the "preventitive maintenance" ................... thanks for the new "to do " list -- I'll close with a phrase my Dad taught me -- 'take care of a tool, or piece of equipment, and it will take care of you" Bill

[Tonytoro416 1,034]

Can I ask how much zinc is in the Kohler and the ariens oil? Like the actual zinc numbers

[peter lena 8,632]

@Tonytoro416   don't use either of those oils , regularly  check and  verify what's going on  with the lubrication  function / effect . think a lot of  problem  build up  is , enough run time /   the quicker  an oil can heat up  to its  working range  /  flow / cleaning effect . makes a big difference . since going over to  5-30  winter  oil , you can  quickly see the effect of  oil getting where it needs to go. personally never  scream up a cold engine , quick start , and it  settles right down , like its telling me something , thats what I  personally  notice , cold running ease , no smoke . regularly look for how things function , can you make it easier, better ?  thats only how I  see it  , my neighbor  regularly  beats his  stuff up  , like a garbage can , would not even waste my time .  pete 

[oliver2-44 9,756]

On 1/9/2023 at 6:58 PM, Brockport Bill said:

 What should i look for,  or listen for ??? Is it just a quieter engine - - or less sputter, less vibration, or is it smoother idle - - my ear probably isn't that well trained to hear the nuances of an engine - - Any tips are appreciated.

 

I have a sound Level dB Meter App downloaded to my iphone NIOSH SLM  It handy for the funny noises and just for curiosity

[Brockport Bill 1,664]

4 hours ago, peter lena said:

@Tonytoro416   don't use either of those oils , regularly  check and  verify what's going on  with the lubrication  function / effect . think a lot of  problem  build up  is , enough run time /   the quicker  an oil can heat up  to its  working range  /  flow / cleaning effect . makes a big difference . since going over to  5-30  winter  oil , you can  quickly see the effect of  oil getting where it needs to go. personally never  scream up a cold engine , quick start , and it  settles right down , like its telling me something , thats what I  personally  notice , cold running ease , no smoke . regularly look for how things function , can you make it easier, better ?  thats only how I  see it  , my neighbor  regularly  beats his  stuff up  , like a garbage can , would not even waste my time .  pete 

hopefully the kohler 10w30 syn with their included zinc additive has same benefit as you've experienced -  as i noted earlier we rarely go below Zero degrees so this Kohler oil should work ok

[peter lena 8,632]

@oliver2-44  oliver , don,t know how your set up normally runs , state of tune / etc  what I  do have is a very easy running , no carb / electrical / ignition issues , engines .  everyone  has a different  operational   horse.  often refer to its  easy  use, when mowing my decks  spin up  with ease , no whining straining noise , engages  pto drive , smooth / easy , attachments  work smooth / easy .just  a collective amount of  getting after , any issue , it just adds up . think your  sound  metering  is interesting ,  when  using any of the 3 , its just  easy to do things ,  and i,m not  screaming the engine  either . after 40 years , its just getting after  what ever they tell you . squeaky ?  rusty /  scraping ?  loud / straining ?  don't collect issues  , eliminate them . was just out , verifying  my  choke settings , see if they moved or  still  in change  spot . cables slide with no effort , linkage swings without effort .  just how I  like it  , pete 

[Brockport Bill 1,664]

On 1/9/2023 at 8:43 PM, lynnmor said:

Did you check the amount of zinc in other oils?  I said before that they all have it, just some has more than others.  ZDDP is in motor oil to reduce wear, I can’t imagine that there are any noticeable changes in the short run.

yes i actually have checked zinc levels in recent weeks leading up to me deciding to use the Kohler label oil with their added zinc -- the measurements are available to research but sometimes it takes a bit of googling to various web sites -- some company brands are more transparent .......others its lots of hunting to find -- i recall the Kohler had about 50 percent more zinc than typical

[Brockport Bill 1,664]

22 hours ago, Tonytoro416 said:

Can I ask how much zinc is in the Kohler and the ariens oil? Like the actual zinc numbers

the zinc levels i have generally found have 700-800 parts zinc ..................the Kohler 10w30 Syn Blend i just purchased includes the zinc "additive" has 1317 parts - - there is a Valvoline VR 1 10w30 Syn thats 1400 parts for racing and classic cars ----- a Valvoline Syn blend High Milage 10w30 thats thats 850 ................but a Valvoline Premium Blue 5w40 thats 1270 -------- there are also Amsoil "small engine " products with zinc additive -- the Mobil 1 high milage 10w30 or 40 and 5w30 that many RSq speak about apparently has 1100 parts zinc.......................When WH tractor owners use a zinc additive themselves to supplement their oil i am not aware what that oil has as its included zinc or how much zinc they are adding?

[lynnmor 7,307]

1 hour ago, Brockport Bill said:

When WH tractor owners use a zinc additive themselves to supplement their oil i am not aware what that oil has as its included zinc or how much zinc they are adding?

 

That is why I caution about additives, too much ZDDP can cause the oil to become acidic.  Since the additives don't give good information and the consumer likely does not know the amount of ZDDP already in the oil, it is a fools game to take the chance.  Racing oil isn't meant to be run long term and may not be the best for intermittent tractor use.

[ebinmaine 67,553]

1 hour ago, Brockport Bill said:

the zinc levels i have generally found have 700-800 parts zinc ..................the Kohler 10w30 Syn Blend i just purchased includes the zinc "additive" has 1317 parts - - there is a Valvoline VR 1 10w30 Syn thats 1400 parts for racing and classic cars ----- a Valvoline Syn blend High Milage 10w30 thats thats 850 ................but a Valvoline Premium Blue 5w40 thats 1270 -------- there are also Amsoil "small engine " products with zinc additive -- the Mobil 1 high milage 10w30 or 40 and 5w30 that many RSq speak about apparently has 1100 parts zinc.......................When WH tractor owners use a zinc additive themselves to supplement their oil i am not aware what that oil has as its included zinc or how much zinc they are adding?

 

 

Here's a link to my post from nearly 3 years ago (man! time flies!!) 

 

 

 

 

Pay particular attention to post #16. 

That's where I did some summarizing of the reading I had done back then.  

 

Watch the API Classifications. ....

 

 

23 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

That is why I caution about additives, too much ZDDP can cause the oil to become acidic

 

My refreshed reading from the above thread puts the accepted common limit around 1200. 

[Brockport Bill 1,664]

19 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

 

That is why I caution about additives, too much ZDDP can cause the oil to become acidic.  Since the additives don't give good information and the consumer likely does not know the amount of ZDDP already in the oil, it is a fools game to take the chance.  Racing oil isn't meant to be run long term and may not be the best for intermittent tractor use.

agreed -- that's why i asked here couple weeks ago to learn about the zinc --- and spent a couple weeks talking to Napa employees - or Advanced Auto, etc - called a couple oil companies technical 1-800- phone customer help numbers --- i could have gone the option of buying a can of zinc additive which is the preferred route for some RSq members -- but for me, I prefer the simple convenient life - just find an oil product with higher amt of zinc and buy it so when i decided to take the good advice here of the importance of zinc in older engines i decided if Kohler makes a zinc formula oil for their older engines I can buy the "correct" zinc ratio. I avoided me being the one to create the proper zinc ratio -- i was mindful of your warning about too much zinc being dangerous. Therefore, the preformulated zinc oil amount was best simple choice for my purposes - I now have supply of the "winter" 10w30 zinc oil as well as the "summer" 30w zinc oil.

[Brockport Bill 1,664]

18 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

 

Here's a link to my post from nearly 3 years ago (man! time flies!!) 

 

 

 

 

Pay particular attention to post #16. 

That's where I did some summarizing of the reading I had done back then.  

 

Watch the API Classifications. ....

 

 

 

My refreshed reading from the above thread puts the accepted common limit around 1200. 

i checked couple weeks ago looking for the Kinetex oil per your suggestion - I had found 12 qts for $80 or $6.66 each -- if buying lesser quantity i found anywhere from 8-12 dollars per quart

[Brockport Bill 1,664]

Eric - - do you know the zinc parts ratio formula compared to the Kohler or other oils?

[lynnmor 7,307]

I think you will find that the Kohler and Kinetex oils are basically the same as oil before the SN nonsense was pushed on us.

 

I just bought two cases for under $5 per quart, you really have to search and I doubt that this price will hold for long since everything else has doubled.

[Brockport Bill 1,664]

 

 

here is really informative listing of Zinc oils 

 

https://autosolutionlab.com/high-zinc-motor-oil-brands/

[Brockport Bill 1,664]

 

heres an actual chart of zddp rankings for zinc, etc

 

https://static.speedwaymotors.com/images/SMI-Oil-Chart.pdf

[Brockport Bill 1,664]

i found there's lots of debate on google articles and sites about the "amount" of zddp - zinc, phosphorus - etc to use - so that's why i decided to buy the Kohler zinc oil for Kohler engines thinking they would know best the ppm to be used in ther older Kohler engines???????????????

[ebinmaine 67,553]

34 minutes ago, Brockport Bill said:

Eric - - do you know the zinc parts ratio formula compared to the Kohler or other oils?

 

27 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

I think you will find that the Kohler and Kinetex oils are basically the same as oil before the SN nonsense was pushed on us.

 

 

 

I'd say Lyn has the answer there.  

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Brockport Bill said:

decided to buy the Kohler zinc oil for Kohler engines thinking they would know best the ppm to be used in ther older Kohler engines

 

I think this is the best decision given the available information 

[Wild Bill 633 846]

Kohler Pro 10W-50 synthetic all season (-20F to 100F) oil.

https://kohlerpower.com/en/engines/popup-1

States "Kohler worked with the experts at Amsoil ..."

Edited January 12, 2023 by Wild Bill 633

[Brockport Bill 1,664]

1 hour ago, Wild Bill 633 said:

Kohler Pro 10W-50 synthetic all season (-20F to 100F) oil.

https://kohlerpower.com/en/engines/popup-1

States "Kohler worked with the experts at Amsoil ..."

good info -- thanks did you find the zddp ratings and level of zinc for the 10w50?

[Brockport Bill 1,664]

 

for all of us Zinc fans............ i wrote to Amsoil Technical Dept for info about their oil that includes a Zinc additive - - here is the company reponse below for those of you looking for higher Zinc content in the oil for use in older Kohler engines..................

 

...Couple of options. One fluid being our Signature Series Max Duty Synthetic Diesel Oil 10W-30, product code DTT, it has about 1300PPM of zinc and 1200PPM of phosphorus. It is safe for use in gasoline and diesel engines.

Another option would be our Premium Protection 10W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil, product code AMO, it has about 1380 PPM of zinc and 1260 PPM of phosphorus.

 

[Brockport Bill 1,664]

came across this Lucas oil spec sheet for Zinc values in their various oil products

 

https://lucasoil.com/pdf/Zinc_Values_MotorcycleOil.pdf

[Brockport Bill 1,664]

On 1/9/2023 at 8:43 PM, lynnmor said:

Did you check the amount of zinc in other oils?  I said before that they all have it, just some has more than others.  ZDDP is in motor oil to reduce wear, I can’t imagine that there are any noticeable changes in the short run.

yes, thanks ---  i have been checking the amount of zinc included across various labels ---- that's why i have just purchased the Kohler label noted earlier on the thread designed for their older Kohler engines - i recall their own Kohler oil that includes added zinc is about 1300 ppm --- whereas the "typical" oils have about 800 ppm zinc