Engine oil flush?

[oliver2-44 9,756]

On 1/7/2023 at 5:32 PM, Brockport Bill said:

Was wondering if when people obtain engines with old "black" oil, if people do an engine oil "flush" with fresh oil,  and then drain and then put in the "final oil"??  I know oil sits in the sump and can accumulate residue, shavings etc. So was thinking a "flush" with new oil, run engine to get warm, jack up front,  -- then draining and put in final oil.

Back to your original question about doing an oil flush on new to you/me engines. 

I was recently given a 1945 Wisconsin AEH. It had been sitting some number of years.  This engine is a brother to the Wisconsin AEN used on the WH Seniors. 

The oil on the dipstick LOOKED GOOD. These engines have an oil plunger pump that lubes the crank rod journal. The pump plunger check ball can stick after setting awhile, so I opened it to check it. I wish I had taken an initial picture of the pump pickup screen and sump bottom. It was just full of old black sludge in all the corners and crevices. The picture below is after I had been cleaning awhile. 

The non-detergent oil was doing what it was designed to do. Let the sludge settle out.  This engine would have benefited from several hot oil drains.  Even after spraying solvent and getting it as clean as I could (without a full disassembly) I will still do a hot drain/flush after a few run hours. 

On the other end of the spectrum Modern detergent oils are designed to keep the contamination in suspension so the oil filter can remove it. 
 

I spent most of my career working at Hydro Dams with 1940-50 vintage equipment. All of it originally had no oil filters and used non-detergent oil. On yearly maintenance shutdowns the hot oil was drained to a large 1000-2500 gallon tank with a cone shaped bottom. This oil was allowed to “Rest” for a year. They had a full change of oil in a second similar tank.  The ”Rested” oil was pumped to the unit from a tap above the cone. Every 5-10 years they pulled the side hatch on the tanks and the crew rookie got to swab out the settled sludge. 

[peter lena 8,632]

@953 nut  most of thengines , I  have seen , not only have very black oil in them , but also typically , very low oil on the stick. like to slowly bring them back , winter use a 5-30 oil , for faster flow and quicker temp change over to 30 wt , that also virtually eliminates , a smokey start . I  do not start them up to a screaming  run , and they sound very good . can only say that since going to added zink , the smooth easy  function is obvious . dip sticks are clean ,and no issues . @Brockport Bill  between the very quick starts and the  cold warm up stage , the engines are much smoother running . don't even ask my neighbor about his stuff , beats the hell out of them, leaves them outside , rusty smokeyt , always experimented with my stuff , consistently maintain them . eliminated anything that showed up , love to make a problem  , into a solid area , pete 

[RED-Z06 2,221]

On 1/11/2023 at 2:50 PM, Brockport Bill said:

the zinc levels i have generally found have 700-800 parts zinc ..................the Kohler 10w30 Syn Blend i just purchased includes the zinc "additive" has 1317 parts - - there is a Valvoline VR 1 10w30 Syn thats 1400 parts for racing and classic cars ----- a Valvoline Syn blend High Milage 10w30 thats thats 850 ................but a Valvoline Premium Blue 5w40 thats 1270 -------- there are also Amsoil "small engine " products with zinc additive -- the Mobil 1 high milage 10w30 or 40 and 5w30 that many RSq speak about apparently has 1100 parts zinc.......................When WH tractor owners use a zinc additive themselves to supplement their oil i am not aware what that oil has as its included zinc or how much zinc they are adding?

I Use the Valvoline VR1 in my Kawasaki and older flat tappet engines in 10w30, i use Amsoil or Mobil1 full syn in my Commands, and 10w40 VR1 in my Onans.  I dont really use any conventional oil anymore in anything, but the VR1 has the high zinc that old flat tappets like.  

[peter lena 8,632]

@RED-Z06  your explanation tells me you are on top of your stuff ,that means a lot , often refer to anything that freaks people out . well if your unit is a rusty train  wreck , in need of a lot of help , its easy to see that so many see my suggestions so overkill . another thing I do after a change is to notice / sense / see  a difference in function /  operation . regularly go over my horses , for anything . if something  pops up , I  get right after it . tractors are in sheds now , battery tenders plugged in , incandescent  rough service bulbs , in a reflector , facing up under engines , for a warming  enhancement . instant starts . thats my baseline  , good talking , pete  

[RED-Z06 2,221]

48 minutes ago, peter lena said:

@RED-Z06  your explanation tells me you are on top of your stuff ,that means a lot , often refer to anything that freaks people out . well if your unit is a rusty train  wreck , in need of a lot of help , its easy to see that so many see my suggestions so overkill . another thing I do after a change is to notice / sense / see  a difference in function /  operation . regularly go over my horses , for anything . if something  pops up , I  get right after it . tractors are in sheds now , battery tenders plugged in , incandescent  rough service bulbs , in a reflector , facing up under engines , for a warming  enhancement . instant starts . thats my baseline  , good talking , pete  

I see so much equipment that has accumulated multiple problems due to the owners either simply ignoring obvious signs or being oblivious to them...i swore id never be like that.  5 minutes of preventative maintenance can save you from 5 hours of repairs.

[peter lena 8,632]

@RED-Z06 agree with that , its rare to  meet another , lawn related owner of anything , that cares about it , just no interest , also goes along with todays throw away society . grew up with this stuff , post ww2 , so much of it is  old school to me . think its neat to be able to keep it going. often refer  to regular checkovers , don't let issues build up . soon as I  see anything , look at the opportunity to save / recover it . my lubrication spray down on neglected horses , really freaks guys out , its simple and it works , recently sold , some attachments, explained how / why I  did detailing for esy function . knowing those cared for  implements  would probably never be serviced again ,  sad,  pete   

[Tonytoro416 1,034]

20 minutes ago, peter lena said:

@RED-Z06 agree with that , its rare to  meet another , lawn related owner of anything , that cares about it , just no interest , also goes along with todays throw away society . grew up with this stuff , post ww2 , so much of it is  old school to me . think its neat to be able to keep it going. often refer  to regular checkovers , don't let issues build up . soon as I  see anything , look at the opportunity to save / recover it . my lubrication spray down on neglected horses , really freaks guys out , its simple and it works , recently sold , some attachments, explained how / why I  did detailing for esy function . knowing those cared for  implements  would probably never be serviced again ,  sad,  pete   

I always tell people that I believe some of the hack lions found on some of these tractors are done by people who are afraid to work on their vehicles so poor old garden tractors take the brunt of the hack jobs it seems like to me 

[RED-Z06 2,221]

11 hours ago, Tonytoro416 said:

I always tell people that I believe some of the hack lions found on some of these tractors are done by people who are afraid to work on their vehicles so poor old garden tractors take the brunt of the hack jobs it seems like to me 

Then you have people that think a cross threaded bolt hammered home with an impact is nature's loctite..

[Wild Bill 633 846]

6 hours ago, RED-Z06 said:

Then you have people that think a cross threaded bolt hammered home with an impact is nature's loctite..

I know a guy who used an impact to remove the flywheel bolt from the crankshaft on a Kohler K-Series. Rather than read the service manual to get the bolt torque, "I will just use the impact to reinstall the bolt." And the end of the crankshaft broke off and it's the damn faulty crankshaft's fault. LOL!

[RED-Z06 2,221]

5 hours ago, Wild Bill 633 said:

I know a guy who used an impact to remove the flywheel bolt from the crankshaft on a Kohler K-Series. Rather than read the service manual to get the bolt torque, "I will just use the impact to reinstall the bolt." And the end of the crankshaft broke off and it's the damn faulty crankshaft's fault. LOL!

Ill be honest...most of what i do is with a 1/4 or 1/2 impact...but ive never had a problem, you have to know when enough is enough...the switch isn't on/off on them lol 

[ebinmaine 67,555]

7 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

Ill be honest...most of what i do is with a 1/4 or 1/2 impact...but ive never had a problem, you have to know when enough is enough...the switch isn't on/off on them lol 

Same here. 

There are speeds and each one has a max available torque. 

I've been well known to drive fasteners in at the lowest speed/torque settings then get out the old fashioned torque wrench.  

 

Trina and I were actually having this discussion just last evening. There are places on the front of the engine that we're putting together where it's not possible to get a socket in, so I have to use a wrench.

Hand tools. Savage behavior. Wrenches are for cavemen.

 

[RED-Z06 2,221]

5 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Same here. 

There are speeds and each one has a max available torque. 

I've been well known to drive fasteners in at the lowest speed/torque settings then get out the old fashioned torque wrench.  

 

Trina and I were actually having this discussion just last evening. There are places on the front of the engine that we're putting together where it's not possible to get a socket in, so I have to use a wrench.

Hand tools. Savage behavior. Wrenches are for cavemen.

 

I get frustrated when i have to use wrenches 🤣

[Tonytoro416 1,034]

4 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

I get frustrated when i have to use wrenches 🤣

I also use a 1/4” and 3/8” Milwaukee impact for almost everything. They are the stubby versions so they fit in most situations. For being only 12v power they are unbelievable. I always say I don’t know what I did without them 

[peter lena 8,632]

@oliver2-44  that rislone zink  additive I use , is like magic at  engine clean up , having used it for quite awhile now in my engines , the hot engine / oil working effect it has is  really effective. know its a / you cant do this for many  /  but every hot oil change I  have is , showing what's going on , evident that the ring glands are cleaner , zero smoke , cold run / start immediate smooth idle. also since going over to a 5-30 winter oil  it very quickly settles into a smooth running set up . I KNOW , you can,t to this , to many i  am always experimenting with operational  running rase , also put hours on my oil experiments , watching oil color change . recently  tried lucas synthetic gear lube , with climbing gear lubricants . did some miles / road time on it , much quieter , easier . get some hours on your oil experimentation , let color change tell you when to drain , that is what I do , don't use a chart or graph , or manual , just old school experience , waiting for the nuclear reaction , pete   

[Brockport Bill 1,664]

1 hour ago, peter lena said:

@oliver2-44  that rislone zink  additive I use , is like magic at  engine clean up , having used it for quite awhile now in my engines , the hot engine / oil working effect it has is  really effective. know its a / you cant do this for many  /  but every hot oil change I  have is , showing what's going on , evident that the ring glands are cleaner , zero smoke , cold run / start immediate smooth idle. also since going over to a 5-30 winter oil  it very quickly settles into a smooth running set up . I KNOW , you can,t to this , to many i  am always experimenting with operational  running rase , also put hours on my oil experiments , watching oil color change . recently  tried lucas synthetic gear lube , with climbing gear lubricants . did some miles / road time on it , much quieter , easier . get some hours on your oil experimentation , let color change tell you when to drain , that is what I do , don't use a chart or graph , or manual , just old school experience , waiting for the nuclear reaction , pete   

testing, experimenting, learning is central to human existance -- keep at it - its how we humans get smarter - we'd have no inventions if we did not try a new or differnt way!!!!!!!!!!!