Wild Bill 633 828 #26 Posted January 10, 2023 18 hours ago, Brockport Bill said: does it make a difference if "conventional oil" is mixed in an engine with synthetic oil --- i assume not since they sell "syn blend" In order to get new rings to seat, you have to use conventional oil. After the rings seat, then you can chance to synthetic oil. I do not believe in synthetic blend oil, a mix of synthetic and conventional oil. My belief is either go fully synthetic or not at all. Small Engine Syn Oil.pdf 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter lena 8,412 #27 Posted January 10, 2023 @Brockport Bill bill the thing I notice most is the running ease , also have to add , there are no other issues with the engines , if there were , I would have gotten after them . realise the ZDDP is an issue to many , but I just use the bottle measurement recommendations for use. this is what I do , regularly experiment on a problem , and make it go away . also found that carb linkage detailing , enhances its function . original set up , loose / sloppy lubricate all movement points , tighten up spring pull points , eliminate play . add clearance to any drag area. that alone will enhance quick starts . always refer to where you were , on a problem , is it better ? work easier ? also detail the hell out of , levers , cable slide , cable spring pull, regularly make changes , so this is regular stuff to me , but wrong , and you can't do that to others . did this on one horse , verified its gain , added it to the other 2 , now they all run / function the same way , thats how I like it , pete 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brockport Bill 1,519 #28 Posted January 10, 2023 6 hours ago, peter lena said: @Brockport Bill bill the thing I notice most is the running ease , also have to add , there are no other issues with the engines , if there were , I would have gotten after them . realise the ZDDP is an issue to many , but I just use the bottle measurement recommendations for use. this is what I do , regularly experiment on a problem , and make it go away . also found that carb linkage detailing , enhances its function . original set up , loose / sloppy lubricate all movement points , tighten up spring pull points , eliminate play . add clearance to any drag area. that alone will enhance quick starts . always refer to where you were , on a problem , is it better ? work easier ? also detail the hell out of , levers , cable slide , cable spring pull, regularly make changes , so this is regular stuff to me , but wrong , and you can't do that to others . did this on one horse , verified its gain , added it to the other 2 , now they all run / function the same way , thats how I like it , pete Peter: In my early wh years following buying my 312-8 in 1989, the tractor was, (and still is,) so reliable that the human brain is easy to fall into a maintenance laziness -------- WH tractors are so good, and so dependable, its easy to just ignore basic maintenance because the tractor just keeps running and running, just turn the switch -- over the years i became more disciplined of doing routine maintenance -- and now i just have learned sooo much more of the "to do list" -- and of course RSq is soooo helpful to know the lesser pointers like the list you noted -- last point --------- the first time i actually took many parts of tractor apart i realized how somewhat neglectful i had been -- especially for tractor items we can't readily see -- now i am more attentive with the "preventitive maintenance" ................... thanks for the new "to do " list -- I'll close with a phrase my Dad taught me -- 'take care of a tool, or piece of equipment, and it will take care of you" Bill 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonytoro416 1,004 #29 Posted January 10, 2023 Can I ask how much zinc is in the Kohler and the ariens oil? Like the actual zinc numbers 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter lena 8,412 #30 Posted January 11, 2023 @Tonytoro416 don't use either of those oils , regularly check and verify what's going on with the lubrication function / effect . think a lot of problem build up is , enough run time / the quicker an oil can heat up to its working range / flow / cleaning effect . makes a big difference . since going over to 5-30 winter oil , you can quickly see the effect of oil getting where it needs to go. personally never scream up a cold engine , quick start , and it settles right down , like its telling me something , thats what I personally notice , cold running ease , no smoke . regularly look for how things function , can you make it easier, better ? thats only how I see it , my neighbor regularly beats his stuff up , like a garbage can , would not even waste my time . pete 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oliver2-44 9,355 #31 Posted January 11, 2023 On 1/9/2023 at 6:58 PM, Brockport Bill said: What should i look for, or listen for ??? Is it just a quieter engine - - or less sputter, less vibration, or is it smoother idle - - my ear probably isn't that well trained to hear the nuances of an engine - - Any tips are appreciated. I have a sound Level dB Meter App downloaded to my iphone NIOSH SLM It handy for the funny noises and just for curiosity 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brockport Bill 1,519 #32 Posted January 11, 2023 4 hours ago, peter lena said: @Tonytoro416 don't use either of those oils , regularly check and verify what's going on with the lubrication function / effect . think a lot of problem build up is , enough run time / the quicker an oil can heat up to its working range / flow / cleaning effect . makes a big difference . since going over to 5-30 winter oil , you can quickly see the effect of oil getting where it needs to go. personally never scream up a cold engine , quick start , and it settles right down , like its telling me something , thats what I personally notice , cold running ease , no smoke . regularly look for how things function , can you make it easier, better ? thats only how I see it , my neighbor regularly beats his stuff up , like a garbage can , would not even waste my time . pete hopefully the kohler 10w30 syn with their included zinc additive has same benefit as you've experienced - as i noted earlier we rarely go below Zero degrees so this Kohler oil should work ok 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter lena 8,412 #33 Posted January 11, 2023 @oliver2-44 oliver , don,t know how your set up normally runs , state of tune / etc what I do have is a very easy running , no carb / electrical / ignition issues , engines . everyone has a different operational horse. often refer to its easy use, when mowing my decks spin up with ease , no whining straining noise , engages pto drive , smooth / easy , attachments work smooth / easy .just a collective amount of getting after , any issue , it just adds up . think your sound metering is interesting , when using any of the 3 , its just easy to do things , and i,m not screaming the engine either . after 40 years , its just getting after what ever they tell you . squeaky ? rusty / scraping ? loud / straining ? don't collect issues , eliminate them . was just out , verifying my choke settings , see if they moved or still in change spot . cables slide with no effort , linkage swings without effort . just how I like it , pete 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brockport Bill 1,519 #34 Posted January 11, 2023 On 1/9/2023 at 8:43 PM, lynnmor said: Did you check the amount of zinc in other oils? I said before that they all have it, just some has more than others. ZDDP is in motor oil to reduce wear, I can’t imagine that there are any noticeable changes in the short run. yes i actually have checked zinc levels in recent weeks leading up to me deciding to use the Kohler label oil with their added zinc -- the measurements are available to research but sometimes it takes a bit of googling to various web sites -- some company brands are more transparent .......others its lots of hunting to find -- i recall the Kohler had about 50 percent more zinc than typical 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brockport Bill 1,519 #35 Posted January 11, 2023 22 hours ago, Tonytoro416 said: Can I ask how much zinc is in the Kohler and the ariens oil? Like the actual zinc numbers the zinc levels i have generally found have 700-800 parts zinc ..................the Kohler 10w30 Syn Blend i just purchased includes the zinc "additive" has 1317 parts - - there is a Valvoline VR 1 10w30 Syn thats 1400 parts for racing and classic cars ----- a Valvoline Syn blend High Milage 10w30 thats thats 850 ................but a Valvoline Premium Blue 5w40 thats 1270 -------- there are also Amsoil "small engine " products with zinc additive -- the Mobil 1 high milage 10w30 or 40 and 5w30 that many RSq speak about apparently has 1100 parts zinc.......................When WH tractor owners use a zinc additive themselves to supplement their oil i am not aware what that oil has as its included zinc or how much zinc they are adding? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lynnmor 7,218 #36 Posted January 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Brockport Bill said: When WH tractor owners use a zinc additive themselves to supplement their oil i am not aware what that oil has as its included zinc or how much zinc they are adding? That is why I caution about additives, too much ZDDP can cause the oil to become acidic. Since the additives don't give good information and the consumer likely does not know the amount of ZDDP already in the oil, it is a fools game to take the chance. Racing oil isn't meant to be run long term and may not be the best for intermittent tractor use. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 66,310 #37 Posted January 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Brockport Bill said: the zinc levels i have generally found have 700-800 parts zinc ..................the Kohler 10w30 Syn Blend i just purchased includes the zinc "additive" has 1317 parts - - there is a Valvoline VR 1 10w30 Syn thats 1400 parts for racing and classic cars ----- a Valvoline Syn blend High Milage 10w30 thats thats 850 ................but a Valvoline Premium Blue 5w40 thats 1270 -------- there are also Amsoil "small engine " products with zinc additive -- the Mobil 1 high milage 10w30 or 40 and 5w30 that many RSq speak about apparently has 1100 parts zinc.......................When WH tractor owners use a zinc additive themselves to supplement their oil i am not aware what that oil has as its included zinc or how much zinc they are adding? Here's a link to my post from nearly 3 years ago (man! time flies!!) Pay particular attention to post #16. That's where I did some summarizing of the reading I had done back then. Watch the API Classifications. .... 23 minutes ago, lynnmor said: That is why I caution about additives, too much ZDDP can cause the oil to become acidic My refreshed reading from the above thread puts the accepted common limit around 1200. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brockport Bill 1,519 #38 Posted January 11, 2023 19 minutes ago, lynnmor said: That is why I caution about additives, too much ZDDP can cause the oil to become acidic. Since the additives don't give good information and the consumer likely does not know the amount of ZDDP already in the oil, it is a fools game to take the chance. Racing oil isn't meant to be run long term and may not be the best for intermittent tractor use. agreed -- that's why i asked here couple weeks ago to learn about the zinc --- and spent a couple weeks talking to Napa employees - or Advanced Auto, etc - called a couple oil companies technical 1-800- phone customer help numbers --- i could have gone the option of buying a can of zinc additive which is the preferred route for some RSq members -- but for me, I prefer the simple convenient life - just find an oil product with higher amt of zinc and buy it so when i decided to take the good advice here of the importance of zinc in older engines i decided if Kohler makes a zinc formula oil for their older engines I can buy the "correct" zinc ratio. I avoided me being the one to create the proper zinc ratio -- i was mindful of your warning about too much zinc being dangerous. Therefore, the preformulated zinc oil amount was best simple choice for my purposes - I now have supply of the "winter" 10w30 zinc oil as well as the "summer" 30w zinc oil. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brockport Bill 1,519 #39 Posted January 11, 2023 18 minutes ago, ebinmaine said: Here's a link to my post from nearly 3 years ago (man! time flies!!) Pay particular attention to post #16. That's where I did some summarizing of the reading I had done back then. Watch the API Classifications. .... My refreshed reading from the above thread puts the accepted common limit around 1200. i checked couple weeks ago looking for the Kinetex oil per your suggestion - I had found 12 qts for $80 or $6.66 each -- if buying lesser quantity i found anywhere from 8-12 dollars per quart 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brockport Bill 1,519 #40 Posted January 11, 2023 Eric - - do you know the zinc parts ratio formula compared to the Kohler or other oils? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lynnmor 7,218 #41 Posted January 11, 2023 I think you will find that the Kohler and Kinetex oils are basically the same as oil before the SN nonsense was pushed on us. I just bought two cases for under $5 per quart, you really have to search and I doubt that this price will hold for long since everything else has doubled. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brockport Bill 1,519 #42 Posted January 11, 2023 here is really informative listing of Zinc oils https://autosolutionlab.com/high-zinc-motor-oil-brands/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brockport Bill 1,519 #43 Posted January 11, 2023 heres an actual chart of zddp rankings for zinc, etc https://static.speedwaymotors.com/images/SMI-Oil-Chart.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brockport Bill 1,519 #44 Posted January 11, 2023 i found there's lots of debate on google articles and sites about the "amount" of zddp - zinc, phosphorus - etc to use - so that's why i decided to buy the Kohler zinc oil for Kohler engines thinking they would know best the ppm to be used in ther older Kohler engines??????????????? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 66,310 #45 Posted January 11, 2023 34 minutes ago, Brockport Bill said: Eric - - do you know the zinc parts ratio formula compared to the Kohler or other oils? 27 minutes ago, lynnmor said: I think you will find that the Kohler and Kinetex oils are basically the same as oil before the SN nonsense was pushed on us. I'd say Lyn has the answer there. 10 minutes ago, Brockport Bill said: decided to buy the Kohler zinc oil for Kohler engines thinking they would know best the ppm to be used in ther older Kohler engines I think this is the best decision given the available information 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wild Bill 633 828 #46 Posted January 12, 2023 (edited) Kohler Pro 10W-50 synthetic all season (-20F to 100F) oil. https://kohlerpower.com/en/engines/popup-1 States "Kohler worked with the experts at Amsoil ..." Edited January 12, 2023 by Wild Bill 633 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brockport Bill 1,519 #47 Posted January 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Wild Bill 633 said: Kohler Pro 10W-50 synthetic all season (-20F to 100F) oil. https://kohlerpower.com/en/engines/popup-1 States "Kohler worked with the experts at Amsoil ..." good info -- thanks did you find the zddp ratings and level of zinc for the 10w50? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brockport Bill 1,519 #48 Posted January 17, 2023 for all of us Zinc fans............ i wrote to Amsoil Technical Dept for info about their oil that includes a Zinc additive - - here is the company reponse below for those of you looking for higher Zinc content in the oil for use in older Kohler engines.................. ...Couple of options. One fluid being our Signature Series Max Duty Synthetic Diesel Oil 10W-30, product code DTT, it has about 1300PPM of zinc and 1200PPM of phosphorus. It is safe for use in gasoline and diesel engines. Another option would be our Premium Protection 10W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil, product code AMO, it has about 1380 PPM of zinc and 1260 PPM of phosphorus. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brockport Bill 1,519 #49 Posted February 1, 2023 came across this Lucas oil spec sheet for Zinc values in their various oil products https://lucasoil.com/pdf/Zinc_Values_MotorcycleOil.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brockport Bill 1,519 #50 Posted February 1, 2023 On 1/9/2023 at 8:43 PM, lynnmor said: Did you check the amount of zinc in other oils? I said before that they all have it, just some has more than others. ZDDP is in motor oil to reduce wear, I can’t imagine that there are any noticeable changes in the short run. yes, thanks --- i have been checking the amount of zinc included across various labels ---- that's why i have just purchased the Kohler label noted earlier on the thread designed for their older Kohler engines - i recall their own Kohler oil that includes added zinc is about 1300 ppm --- whereas the "typical" oils have about 800 ppm zinc 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites