Snowblower bogging down

[Joe 77 B100 84]

Hey there folks.  I was blowing some snow today with my 77 B100 and the snow blower kept bogging down and making me stop, back up and approach the snow again.  I don't recall it doing that last year so I wondered if maybe the belt wasn't tight enough.

1. Is there a way to test how tight the belt should be?  Is there an exact tension required or way to set that tension on the belt?  I know there is a spring that causes tension but I don't see any other way to adjust that.
2. I lubricated everything last year and everything seems to be loose but I guess I should do it again?  I only see one zerk on a pulley leading to the blower.  Is there no way to lubricate the axle the blades spin on?
3. Any other ideas?

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,037]

Pto clutch slipping? Tighten the trunnion about 2 turns and try again. Repeat if necessary.

The belt would be the last to slip if ever.

[Ed Kennell 38,056]

If the engine rpm is not decreasing when the auger slows down then possibilities are;

1.as Garry noted, the PTO is slipping and needs adjusted

2.the belt tension spring needs replaced

3.The belt is worn on the sides and bottoming out in the PTO or blower drive pulley...replace the belt

4.One of the jackshaft keys is missing

 

[Joe 77 B100 84]

15 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

Pto clutch slipping? Tighten the trunnion about 2 turns and try again. Repeat if necessary.

The belt would be the last to slip if ever.

I am going to have to google a pic and/or video to even know what/where that is.  If you have a link or any help then let me know so I can go try it.  Or, even some pics.  but, I "think" I already tried that. 

The engine does NOT bog down when the blower stops turning so it isn't tight and also bringing down the rpms.  Something needs to be tighter.

I pulled the pin out on the lever that engages the PTO and turned the bar with the threads on it but now the PTO still stays engaged a bit when I release it.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Joe 77 B100

[Joe 77 B100 84]

11 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

If the engine rpm is not decreasing when the auger slows down then possibilities are;

1.as Garry noted, the PTO is slipping and needs adjusted

2.the belt tension spring needs replaced

3.The belt is worn on the sides and bottoming out in the PTO or blower drive pulley...replace the belt

4.One of the jackshaft keys is missing

 

The engine does NOT decrease.

I pulled this out, which I think is the trunnion, and turned the bar that threads into it but that just seems to keep the PTO running even when its disengaged.  I am going to undo that unless I just turned it too many times.  I will check and see what a jackshaft key is.  Any pics or videos would be great.  Totally learning as a go.

[Joe 77 B100 84]

By the way, when I say bogged down, that means even the PTO stops turning.  Which, now that I think of it, means it is NOT a jackshaft key on the axel with the blades.  If it were a broken or missing jackshaft key, then the PTO and belts would keep turning but the blades would not.  Am I thinking of that correctly?

 

And, since I can see the PTO mechanism (on the right side of the tractor engine) is stopping, then it isn't a loose belt, right? If it were a loose belt, then the PTO would keep turning the belt would whine.

So, it MUST be that the PTO needs to be tightened?  I DID turn the trunnion a few times but now that keeps the PTO engaged even when I pull the back back to release it.

 

Thanks for your patience as I learn. 

[oliver2-44 9,714]

Remove your PTO bell and check that your clutch plate is not worn down to the brass rivets. The rivets will hold the steel part of the bell off the grippy clutch material. You will have to remove the blower belt also the little PTO brake if it has one. You do not need to remove the tractor drive belt/pulley.  Show us some pictures of your clutch plate. 
 

While you have the PTO bell off clean the grease out of that inner bearing and apply new grease.  It too much grease or it will sling it everywhere. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by oliver2-44

[Joe 77 B100 84]

18 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

Remove your PTO bell and check that your clutch plate is not worn down to the brass rivets. The rivets will hold the steel part of the bell off the grippy clutch material. You will have to remove the blower belt also the little PTO brake if it has one. You do not need to remove the tractor drive belt/pulley.  Show us some pictures of your clutch plate. 
 

While you have the PTO bell off clean the grease out of that inner bearing and apply new grease.  It too much grease or it will sling it everywhere. 

I found this video and even though its not the same model I assume its something like what you are getting at.   I watched it and there was no mention of brass rivets.  If you are willing, watch it and tell me at what minute to pay close attention.  I guess I might as well get a new clutch plate.  Anyone got a part number for the 77 B100?

Thanks.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Joe 77 B100

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,037]

Just so you have them here are some manuals

Here is a snowthower manual that may be different than the one you have but most of it and the operation of it will be the same.

This 1978 manual covers many service procedures for all models. If you use the C-series it will be appropriate.

The B-series may also be correct but some have a vertical crankshaft engine and Peerless transmission so those are different.

Keep the questions coming

[Joe 77 B100 84]

Found this but the pics aren't very clear.  I guess I will dig my way to the shop by hand (we got a lot of snow recently), get the shop heated and then try and get some pics.  Thanks for all your help.  More later.

 

[oliver2-44 9,714]

At minute 3:41 he touches the clutch plate with his blue gloved finder.  
At minute 14:08 he is removing old clutch plate then comparing to new one 
The original plates had brass rivets, the replacements clutch material is glued to the round steel plate. If your clutch wear material is glazed you can sand it, (for a short time fix) just like pullstart sanded the steel bell face.  You don’t need to sand up it back to perfectly smooth, just scratch it up so there are no shiny areas. 
 

PS. I’m a Texan and have never seen a snowblower in person. But I do a low of mowing and the clutch part acts the same when driving a mower deck or a snow blower. 

Edited December 27, 2022 by oliver2-44

[Joe 77 B100 84]

Do most of you use Amazon for parts or somewhere else?
https://www.amazon.com/Ohoho-94-6650-114881-Friction-Compatible/dp/B09BQ41JZB/ref=asc_df_B09BQ41JZB/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=532737912949&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4192381847681435998&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9021830&hvtargid=pla-1417562824977&psc=1

In case I need a new one- which I assume I do since I was gifted a machine that seemed to have been unkept for years.

 

I found this from the wheel horse parts and more site but it doesn't give any old part numbers and I would assume there is no way they are universal.

https://wheelhorsepartsandmore.com/product/94-6650-clutch-plate-assembly-wheel-horse/

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by Joe 77 B100

[oliver2-44 9,714]

I know their is one standard size for the B, C, 300, 400, 500 tractors. I sort of recall the early one with a PTO bell/clutch in the mid-late 60,s early 70,s may have had a slightly smaller PTO bell/clutch plate. Maybe one of the other members can comment on this @Ed Kennell 

Edited December 27, 2022 by oliver2-44

[Ed Kennell 38,056]

Great that you noticed the PTO bell was not turning.  So now we know the PTO clutch is where the slipping is taking place.   

Yes there are at least two different diameter PTO plates..Maybe three.      Sorry Jim,  I am not sure which diameter plate is on a B-100.   Best to take it off and measure.

Bob @Maynard has the discs and may know which size you need.

[Joe 77 B100 84]

Anyone know how to make the images smaller?

The face of the clutch looks ok.  It is still a few mm from the brass- but not much.

 

 

[Joe 77 B100 84]

And, here is a pic of me trying to measure with a caliper but I wasn't able to hold the caliper, the clutch plate AND take a pic.

[Joe 77 B100 84]

A better pic of the thickness of the clutch plate.

By the way, that shiney tube or "race"? easily slides through the clutch plate. Should there be some ring in the groove by my index finger which keeps it from slipping all the way and both ways through the clutch plate?

[Joe 77 B100 84]

The face of the "bell" looks to be in ok shape and there seems to be plenty of lube in the bearings.

[Joe 77 B100 84]

As you can see, the "key" seems to be totally missing from the rest of the shaft that goes through the clutch plate.  But, part of me thinks there doesn't need to be a key in the shaft/race because it is screwed with four bolts  to the block. 

And, if there is supposed to be a key that continues from the block through the race, shouldn't there be a square cutout on the inside of the race into which the rest of the key (if there is supposed to be more key) would go?

 

 

[peter lena 8,592]

@Joe 77 B100  looks like a building detailing  is in order , that pto cone area , has 2 related bearings , one outside and another needle bearing inside,  grease type , not volume  is most important , a hi temp  560 deg rated  lube , will stay with the bearings , heve re greased all of mine , thorough clean out , and lightly lube inner needle bearing , excess can and will sling on/up to clutch face  , making it slip.   note pto lever , added washers , at start point , makes it work better , also note heim joint on place of trunnion , super easy smooth , last pic,  battery tender plug in , added ground cable from battery ground bolt  to engine / chassis , increase  engine grounding / lights .  pete

 

[Joe 77 B100 84]

19 minutes ago, peter lena said:

@Joe 77 B100  looks like a building detailing  is in order , that pto cone area , has 2 related bearings , one outside and another needle bearing inside,  grease type , not volume  is most important , a hi temp  560 deg rated  lube , will stay with the bearings , heve re greased all of mine , thorough clean out , and lightly lube inner needle bearing , excess can and will sling on/up to clutch face  , making it slip. 

Got it!

 note pto lever , added washers , at start point , makes it work better ,

In this pic, which articulation point that I highlighted?  I don't know what you mean by "starting point"?

 

also note heim joint on place of trunnion , super easy smooth ,

Not sure what you mean by that. Heim joint?  Newbie here, you will have to be very specific and use terminology from the parts list. 

last pic,  battery tender plug in , added ground cable from battery ground bolt  to engine / chassis , increase  engine grounding / lights .  pete

Got it!

 

 

[8ntruck 6,993]

My PTO was slipping while I was running my 42" mower deck this summer.  Turns out that the 'C' clip on the outside end of the stub shaft in the PTO bell had come out of the groove in the stub shaft. 

 

Instead of putting force on the PTO clutch, the arch that the PTO engagement lever moves was just pushing the stub shaft deeper into the bearing on the outside of the bell.

 

I also found that the Spiroll pin that holds the U shaped bracket on the end of the stub shaft to the arch was broken.  A spring pin will work here for a while, but you really need a two layer Spiroll pin there.

 

Good luck.

[peter lena 8,592]

@Joe 77 B100   # 29 LEVER ROD going into # 30 , has a lot of loose play right there , thats what my initial picture showed , if you fill in that gap with washers and grease , like my picture showed , it makes it solid and smooth .for a starting point . what I  did on the trunnion  swap out  , to screw on heim  joint ,https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=lysk0f8m&id=72F06682269870F5F9330B540563A2EB1C6B679C&thid=OIP.lysk0f8mBNCkXdN_vSsvnQHaFj&  used a 3/8 x 24 die thread nut , over original 3/8 x 16 threads , to screw on new heim joint , adjust back and forth , till it works  easily .the fit will be into part # 29 outer corner hole . use an elastic  nut on the heim joint bolt end . so it will not move . actually  a pretty simple improvement  , have it on my 3 horses , local h/w store might have that heim joint ,  question , just ask , pete 

[peter lena 8,592]

 @Joe 77 B100  joe if this is to much  , I  can understand , just make a habit of  taking care of chronic issues . pete

[Joe 77 B100 84]

It is all awesome as I have recently wanted to learn how to not only keep them running but also repair and restore.  Thanks for your help.