Winter starting help

[Joe 77 B100 84]

34 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Have you tried jump starting them off your car???

No, but if that is a thing then I will.    But, if I do that to get them started, I still need better batteries, right?

[Handy Don 13,340]

1 minute ago, Joe 77 B100 said:

No, but if that is a thing then I will.    But, if I do that to get them started, I still need better batteries, right?

If a strong battery (in the car) let's them start in normal fashion, then yes it's likely you have depleted batteries that need replacing.

[Joe 77 B100 84]

Here is the John Deere starting with the weird whirring noise. It's battery stayed about 10v when I tried starting it.  It DOES have an old battery though. Maybe 3 years old?

https://youtu.be/vcXgyGgwfyM

 

 

 

Wheel horse struggling in a different way.  It's battery went down to 5 when I tried starting it.  The battery was new last winter.

https://youtu.be/k17x4Hq54WM

Edited December 20, 2022 by Joe 77 B100

[pfrederi 18,334]

Were the videos made while jump starting from your car??

[Joe 77 B100 84]

27 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Were the videos made while jump starting from your car??

The wheel horse, with the 1 year old batter that went down to 5V when I turned the key, started right up.

 

The JD with the 3 or 4 year old battery that only went down to 11V when I turned the key struggled but started and still made the slow whirring noise when I turned the key.

 

The good news is, jump starting them works and is easy based on how we park our machines and cars.  I will take both batteries in today to get them checked out and maybe replace them.

[Handy Don 13,340]

And don't forget those grounds! 

[Joe 77 B100 84]

17 hours ago, Handy Don said:

And don't forget those grounds! 

Right.  Is there a map of all of them anywhere?  I have the wiring schematic but, from what I see, it doesn't show grounds.  I have a feeling I am missing them.

I kinda feel like the manual that shows where all of the oil zerks are should also show all of the points that you might lost connection for grounds.

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Joe 77 B100

[pfrederi 18,334]

Follow negative lead from the battery.  Make sure where ever it is bolted to is clean and shiny.  Ideally get a new cable and run it from the battery to an engine mounting bolt.. Also make sure the voltage regulator case is well grounded to the hood stand and the starter solenoid is well grounded.

 

[Handy Don 13,340]

3 minutes ago, Joe 77 B100 said:

Right.  Is there a map of all of them anywhere?  I kinda feel like the manual that shows where all of the oil zerks are should also show all of the points that you might lost connection for grounds.

 

Heck, that is a great idea! Not easy to do, though, with so many wiring variations.

 

As it is now, I think most of us familiar with basic electricity look at every place where there is a 12v plus and ask ourselves how that current will get from the component to back to ground.

Firstly, of course, is that the battery negative cable connections are clean and tight -- usually to the engine block. (I once became a hero by resuscitating a dead tractor the owner was ready to junk--the negative battery cable end was rusty and corroded so it couldn’t make a solid connection).

Some of us run specific grounds from a component direct to a grounding block wired to the battery negative--I do it for headlights, tail lights, and voltmeters (and the fuel level sender on 520’s).

A DVOM (digital volt-ohm meter) can help look for resistance between the component and the battery negative. A continuity tester isn’t ideal--it cannot readily identify poor grounds only complete breaks.

 

For example, when I refurbished my 854 I painted all the parts of the starter/generator mount separately and then assembled it. Hmmm, very sluggish starting with a brand new battery! Oops, forgot that there has to be an excellent, high-current-capable ground from the body of the S/G, through the mount, to the already well-grounded engine block. Had to disassemble, scrape some paint, apply dielectric grease (to inhibit future rust/corrosion) and reassemble. Similar situation on engines with bendix/flywheel starters, make sure the starter body mount lugs are cleanly and tightly bolted to the engine. Both of these assume the innards of the starter or S/G are already in good shape, of course.

 

On battery/points engines, the points mounting bracket and the condenser body must be well grounded to the engine block.

On engines with a voltage regulator (VR), the VR’s body must be very well grounded. This is sometimes overlooked on Onan engines where the VR is mounted on the engine cooling fan shroud or on some late 70’s tractors having the VR on a bracket attached to the hoodstand--in both cases the electricity must go through several other component-to-component connections to get to ground, any of which could offer too much resistance!

 

And more...