Tenday 24 #1 Posted December 18, 2022 Hello All - looking for help on my 417-8 / KT-17 engine. She was running great and then one evening, when plowing, I was not able to increase the throttle as the engine would bog out and die. Engine ideals, runs and and starts just fine so long as the throttle is not increased. Some factors: - new carb - new fuel lines - quality gas - new plugs - new points - new solenoid - new battery Odd thing here is when I remove the air filter, I can increase throttle without issues. Thoughts ? Any advice is appreciated. Sincerely, MK 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,717 #2 Posted December 18, 2022 Sounds like the machine is too rich. When is the last time you replaced the air filter? Could it be clogged? It could be a carburetor adjustment issue... as when you remove the air filter... you are allowing more air in. When you say "new carburetor" ...where exactly did you buy it? Did you buy a replacement that has an adjustable main jet needle? If the air filter is not clogged, and you did buy a carburetor that has an adjustment screw... try screwing the top screw on the carburetor clockwise, see if that solves your problem... Don 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,717 #3 Posted December 18, 2022 Normally, in the situation where you are... when you increase the throttle and the machine bogs and dies... you have 2 possibilities. 1: machine has clogged main jet. If you spray carb cleaner into the intake while holding throttle open, generally it will run just fine... but when you remove the carb cleaner, the machine will bog down and die. Carburetor needs to be cleaned in this case. 2: machine is too rich... and when you remove the air filter it is both allowing more air in (machine is leaner without air filter, i.e. removing air filter is less restrictive, helping to correct F/A ratio). Machine is possibly blowing excess fuel out the carburetor inlet when filter is removed. Carburetor must be adjusted (if applicable)... or replaced if no other culprits are found. Normally, a situation such as this will render a blackened spark plug from the rich condition. Don Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 57,963 #4 Posted December 18, 2022 Could be too rich as Don said or it could be an ignition issue. When you replaced the ignition points did you check the ignition timing? The gap of your points sets the timing and if it is not correct the engine will not operate properly. Did you replace the condenser in your ignition system? The wrong condenser will give the symptoms you have described. The correct condenser is Kohler part # 230722. The dime-store variety condenser you will find at the big box stores is not correct for a battery ignition system. The Kohler 230722 Condenser fits all battery ignition single cylinder and twin cylinder from the K-90 to the K-582. The 235786 condensers are for the magneto equipped Kohler engines only K-161 to K-301 The unit of measure for a condenser is the Farad. Many electronic components like radios and TVs use capacitors that are in the microfarad range (ten to the minus six power Farads) and our small engines use a condenser that is in the nanofarad range (ten to the minus ninth power Farads) which is based on the voltage range they work in. A magneto ignition system uses a 100 to 250 nF condenser and a battery ignition system uses a 200 to 500 nF condenser. A good multi-meter will have a capacitor testing function. Armed with this information you can walk into your auto parts store and get a very confused look on the face of the person on the other side of the counter. The capacitance is not listed on the package and probably not in any of the on-line data they have for the condensers they stock. You just have to go by the application chart and be sure that the condenser you are buying is for the type ignition system your engine has, not just the horsepower or engine size. If an engine idles well, but runs erratically when revved up, like it hits and misses, pops and backfires, then chances are, it needs a new condenser/capacitor. And always install a condenser/capacitor with the wire facing downward so rain water and/or when washing off engine, water will not enter inside condenser/capacitor, ruining it. With water inside the condenser, this will also allow it to idle well, but cause it to run erratically when revved up. What is a farad (F)? A farad (F) is the standard unit of capacitance (C) in the International System of Units (SI). It indicates the ability of a substance to hold an electric charge. The value of most electrical capacitors is expressed in farads, microfarads (µF) or nanofarads (nF) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
8ntruck 7,389 #5 Posted December 19, 2022 Like @Snoopy11 said, you might be running rich. Turn the main mixture clockwise (in) a 1/2 turn and try again. Did this condition exist before replacing the carb? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TonyToro Jr. 1,769 #6 Posted December 19, 2022 To the !!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tuneup 1,433 #7 Posted December 19, 2022 I'd put my money on new carb = China. It might be good or bad, and I'm not familiar with the Kohler twin units, I expect you can adjust it to a decent degree as the lads say on here. If you still have the original and can rebuild it, you should. Good luck! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter lena 9,092 #8 Posted December 19, 2022 @Tenday 2 things pop out to me , would use a carb cleaner extension tube on any / all removal areas , jets , swing points , would also enhance engine grounding for possible fault. battery ground cable bolt point , add another cable from that to engine / frame area , would also enhance condenser mount point , related electrical grounding , might try alligator clip on wire first for enhanced grounding test , if that helps , your on the right track . related connections , cracked slide fitting , ? pete Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tenday 24 #9 Posted December 19, 2022 Thank you for all the advice ! I will be operating today; result will be posted. - THANK YOU! 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tenday 24 #10 Posted December 20, 2022 I'm quite impressed - '1: machine has clogged main jet.' I pulled carb and, boom, found a piece of liquid gasket sitting in main jet. Tail between legs here : ( I mistakenly used liquid gasket between the carb and block that holds air filter brace unit. Bad Idea.... Whoops. As always, thank you for all you help and time. Very much appreciated. Snoopy11 - you're two for two on answers. Appreciated. Sincerely, Mark 3 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,717 #11 Posted December 20, 2022 @Tenday... Mark, you would be surprised how much this happens when people replace fuel filters and such. The smallest flake of fuel line or other debris goes downstream and clogs the main jet. I haven't personally ever had one that ran good with a clogged main jet when you remove the air filter. I'll have to remember that. Normally, the only way the machine will run better is when you feed it carb cleaner manually. Thanks for sharing, very glad you got it figured out! Don 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites