KOHLER COMMAND 14 BURNING OIL

[jeff lary 171]

Hello everyone, It's been a while since posting last for sure.

I am just asking advice for now trying to build up my courage, I guess. I have a 2000 WH 3-14-8 tractor and it is burning a lot of oil about 1/2 a quart +/- in about 3 hours runtime. I believe it is maybe? in need of new rings. I cannot tell you the exact engine hours as I bought this tractor used. It was super clean, but the hr. meter could be a replacement I have no idea. In any case here is my question it is a hard one to answer I know but here goes. I am wondering how much of a mess I will get into trying to change the piston rings myself.

  I know that's a crazy question because no one here knows my mechanical capability level. I have rebuilt dozens of 2 stroke saw engines over the years and I think I am ok at a lot of stuff, but I have never had a 4 stroke apart and it appears I will have to deal with an OHV engine here (i.e.) valves. I have never done anything with them. I have a shop lots of tools, but I do not have valve spring compressor or piston ring pliers or the ring compression tool but, if need be, can buy all of that. If I do this, I will remove the engine from the tractor maybe and put in on my large rolling table in the shop plenty of room heat beer etc. Any way how much hell am in in for and if / when I need guidance is anyone interested in helping via the web?

[Wild Bill 633 846]

I would suggest go to the Kohler website and download the service manual and read. If you feel comfortable come on back.

 

[Pullstart 62,905]

It should have quite a bit of similarities with the two strokes you’ve done.  They all have tolerances, specs, etc.  if you find it’s too much, 

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,762]

Though not your engine, this thread will show you the tools and some knowledge of what you are in for.  

 

[jeff lary 171]

Thank you all for your replies, I am a slow planner so for now I will do some studying up and see what I think then. We have a standby Generac Generator with a Kohler engine. The company we bought it from uses a local Kohler certified shop if I feel it is something I do not wish to tackle I may call him.

[stevasaurus 22,762]

Actually, if you take out the engine and tear it down and you have a machine shop, you can tear it down and have them do the machining and then put it back together yourself.  I did that on a couple of K181's...saved some bucks and learned a lot.  

[8ntruck 7,014]

You could learn a lot about the condition of the engine if you pull the head.  That will let you get a look at the condition of the cylinder bore and to some extent the valves.

[953 nut 55,283]

What oil are using, 10 W 30 or straight 30 Weight? Has this problem been coming on slowly or was it a sudden change? I don't own a Command engine but I suspect it has a crankcase vent going to the engine intake manifold, is it connected?

I would suggest you do a leak-down test to locate the point of compression/oil loss. This thread may be helpful.

 

[jeff lary 171]

I tried last night to see the service manual at the Kohler site but had no luck. My model number is CH 14S (I think) I looked at every 14hp engine on the site too and none look like mine. As far as the oil burning it started in midsummer maybe June? and by fall the smoke was enough that it smelled pretty strong while mowing not pleasant to be around. I see a lot of people are mentioning a machine shop in their responses. I just figured that if it was ring's I would just replace them? ...no?

[953 nut 55,283]

8 minutes ago, jeff lary said:

I just figured that if it was ring's I would just replace them? ...no?

You could just replace the rings but you would be throwing your money and time away. The rings wear down but the cylinder is worn down too and the wear is not consistent. This thread should help.

 

[jeff lary 171]

Yes, I have done this before on saw engines to check ring end gap. I suppose if it went to a shop, they would also do the valve seats. Sorry i also did not completely answer 953 nut. The oil I think?? is a straight 30wt non detergent but i cannot swear to that i have it written down in the workshop, I think. It may be 10w30 or even 5w30? it is whatever the owner's manual recommended/ Yes, the Oil breather tube goes from the air filter housing I think to the crankcase, and it is attached.

[pfrederi 17,741]

Looks like parts for it are already getting more limited.  Use the part numbers and look to see what is available before you make any decisions

Getting pricey also $100 for just rings???

 

 

[Wild Bill 633 846]

@jeff lary, If you go to the Kohler website and search using horizontal shaft, single cylinder, Command Pro series and 0-16HP and choose the CH15 and there is a service manual is for CH11-16. 

[pfrederi 17,741]

Also in Manual section here

 

 

[jeff lary 171]

Yea, I was hooked up on 14 hp maybe that's why thanks all.

[Achto 27,597]

Sad to see that parts for the CH14, which is a newer engine are getting limited. On the other hand a K321 14hp, which is an older engine has parts readily available. With after market rebuild kits at a very reasonable price.

 

If the price to fix your engine gets out of budget or you have parts availability issues. Then you might consider looking for a K321 with a bendix style starter to replace your engine. Should be a fairly easy swap.

[Wild Bill 633 846]

@jeff laryIf you were to rebuild the engine I would recommend the following parts, piston kit (0.050 over), rod (0..25 under), intake and exhaust valves, valve guide seals, valve springs, valve keepers, lifters, cylinder head bolts and gasket set. The machine shop to clean all parts, grind crank, bore & hone cylinder, valve guides, valve job, deck block and mill head and check ring end gap. Cost is approximately $450 in parts and $400 to machine.

[pfrederi 17,741]

38 minutes ago, Wild Bill 633 said:

@jeff laryIf you were to rebuild the engine I would recommend the following parts, piston kit (0.050 over), rod (0..25 under), intake and exhaust valves, valve guide seals, valve springs, valve keepers, lifters, cylinder head bolts and gasket set. The machine shop to clean all parts, grind crank, bore & hone cylinder, valve guides, valve job, deck block and mill head and check ring end gap. Cost is approximately $450 in parts and $400 to machine.

 

 

I am not familiar with these new engines.  Going .050 over seems like a lot?  and the .025 under on the crank seem like a lot also.  Curious as to why the parts Kohler offers are such a big adjustment..

[Wild Bill 633 846]

1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

Going .050 over seems like a lot?  and the .025 under on the crank seem like a lot also. 

Metric engine. 0.050mm = 0.0196 in. and 0.025mm = 0.0098 in.

[pfrederi 17,741]

28 minutes ago, Wild Bill 633 said:

Metric engine. 0.050mm = 0.0196 in. and 0.025mm = 0.0098 in.

 

Thank you...

 

Way too new for me

[Bill D 1,922]

6 hours ago, jeff lary said:

I tried last night to see the service manual at the Kohler site but had no luck. My model number is CH 14S (I think) I looked at every 14hp engine on the site too and none look like mine. As far as the oil burning it started in midsummer maybe June? and by fall the smoke was enough that it smelled pretty strong while mowing not pleasant to be around. I see a lot of people are mentioning a machine shop in their responses. I just figured that if it was ring's I would just replace them? ...no?

I would start slowly.  Clean and rebuild the breather assembly and see if anything changes.  Could be as simple as a clogged breather.   Also, consider replacing the valve stem seals.  Since this is an OHV engine it should be fairly easy to do.  That may solve your problems.  It is a bit of a gamble with time and money, but it beats a full rebuild.

[jeff lary 171]

Yes I agree like I said in the beginning for now I am just thinking about it. I may let someone who has done this before tackle it I am not sure yet. Before I get into too many hundreds of dollars I may just repower it? I bought a 3hp Predator ( WEN) engine for a push mower about 4 years ago so far it has run great. I don't know what size would fit under the hood if i went that way. For now though that is a far second or third choice. My first choice would be to repair the Kohler. When you say rebuild the breather assembly what does that consist of? I could look it up in the parts diagram I am sure. I must be just thinking of the breather "tube" as I thought that was all there is / was to it. I guess there must be more to it than that. (Showing my ignorance now hua..)

[Bill D 1,922]

53 minutes ago, jeff lary said:

Yes I agree like I said in the beginning for now I am just thinking about it. I may let someone who has done this before tackle it I am not sure yet. Before I get into too many hundreds of dollars I may just repower it? I bought a 3hp Predator ( WEN) engine for a push mower about 4 years ago so far it has run great. I don't know what size would fit under the hood if i went that way. For now though that is a far second or third choice. My first choice would be to repair the Kohler. When you say rebuild the breather assembly what does that consist of? I could look it up in the parts diagram I am sure. I must be just thinking of the breather "tube" as I thought that was all there is / was to it. I guess there must be more to it than that. (Showing my ignorance now hua..)

There is probably an exploded drawing online.  I'm not sure how that breather is constructed compared to the K/M series engines.  Still cleaning or replacement would be my starting point.  Also, changing the valve stem seals.  Another possibility is a blown head gasket.  This happened on my neighbors Briggs on his MTD.  It was burning lots of oil until it wouldn't start one day.  Changed the head gasket and it solved the oil burning issue.  Not sure how notorious the Command series is for blown head gaskets compared to the Briggs.

[Snoopy11 5,714]

11 hours ago, 953 nut said:

You could just replace the rings but you would be throwing your money and time away. The rings wear down but the cylinder is worn down too and the wear is not consistent.

And often the piston top itself is worn, particularly in cases when there is a lot of oil burning...

 

Even if you measured the cylinder and it was perfect... which 99% of the time is not the case... then you would still likely need rings, pistons, and a good hone.

 

If you are going to go to all that trouble, it wouldn't be a bad idea to get it bored out oversize, get some more power, and buy oversized internals.

 

Buying a new engine is also an option, but it would require a good amount of work to retrofit.

 

We will be around to help no matter what you decide... and pictures are glorious!!!

 

Don

[Tuneup 1,433]

I went cheap the first time on my K301 - kids still at home cleaning out the fridge - and worked the old hone through, it seems like, forever. Didn't mark it up much. New piston, rod and rings. Got rid of the smoke but the power was never what it should be. Second time, noted that it could use an .020 boring. Supplied the parts and bare block to the shop. They cut it and noted the cast iron was about the hardest they'd seen. The difference in power is notable. She's now a beast and sounds sooooo good at speed So, go cheap and she won't smoke or you can spend the $$. Isn't that how it always is???  Now, is a machine shop nearby in Maine? It was a 2 hour trip from Jasper GA for me. Harder and harder to find.