KT 17 Engine oil for C175 Kohler ???

[Brockport Bill 1,667]

I have two C175 tractors - with KT 17 engine -- one is series 1, the other series 2 --- the Forums online manual for the Series 2 states to use SAE 30w detergent oil -- spec as API SG or SH -- However, curiously the Series 1 service manual calls for SF or SG  ----------- the label for the supply of SAE 30w detergent Fram oil I have has a label spec API Service SP, "SN plus, SN"   ---------------- Does this alpha spec difference matter ? Do i have to use just the Kohler stated alpha spec and NOT the Fram spec, or as long as its 30W detergent is it ok? Thanks !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bill D 1,922]

If you want to really baby those old engines spring for Amsoil small engine oil.  Very pricey.  If the tractor is going to be inside in a warm place use Rotella T1 30W.  Much cheaper.  

[lynnmor 7,307]

Consider Kohler oil, it is available in both 30 and 10-30 and is not SN.  The SN oils were developed to keep catalytic converters happy by reducing ZDDP.  Prices vary widely, so you need to shop around.

[Achto 27,597]

3 hours ago, Brockport Bill said:

API Service SP, "SN plus, SN"

 

As oil is improved the API S# increases. At the time your engine was built SG & SH were the latest and greatest. I run Rotella 30wt diesel oil in all of my K model Kohlers, it has more "dino juice" & less synthetic additives in it.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Achto

[953 nut 55,285]

25 minutes ago, Achto said:

I run Rotella 30wt diesel oil in all of my K model Kohlers

We have had lots of threads about motor oil over the years and diesel 30 weight motor oil has been the consistent winner. Here are a few hundred oil related threads.            

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/search/?&q= oil&type=forums_topic&search_and_or=and&search_in=titles&sortby=relevancy

[oldlineman 1,481]

I only run Rotella HD 30, have had 0 problems. Bob

[Brockport Bill 1,667]

good info so far -- i appreciate the insights what people use as personal preference, and what they like, or their experiences, -- but what i was trying to learn is if the API alpha designations actually disqualifies using other designations --- or disqualifies me from using the any other 30W like the Fram  API Service SP, "SN plus, SN" I have a supply of? thanks

[pfrederi 17,741]

The higher the letter the newer more advanced the oil.  They are backward compatible (except for the issue of flat tappets and the lack of ZDDP) but that has been an issue for the last couple of iterations.   If you have SN oil I would recommend you add a ZDDP supplement.  When KT17s were made oils at that time had adequate ZDDP

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

Quote

adequate ZDDP

@Brockport Bill

 

And remember... MORE is NOT better!

 

If you look up the oil spec, and read the directions on the ZDDP bottle, then do the math, you will find that if you use the 30W T1 Rotella, that 1 Oz per Quart (of the Rislone brand) gives adequate Zn levels.

 

Adding more can cause the oil to become acidic over time and that's worse than no Zn at all!

 

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by Jeff-C175

[Brockport Bill 1,667]

1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

The higher the letter the newer more advanced the oil.  They are backward compatible (except for the issue of flat tappets and the lack of ZDDP) but that has been an issue for the last couple of iterations.   If you have SN oil I would recommend you add a ZDDP supplement.  When KT17s were made oils at that time had adequate ZDDP

so when you say "higher" letter, do you mean later in the alphabet -- when you say more advanced i assume you mean newer or more recent years? Thanks?

[Brockport Bill 1,667]

1 hour ago, Jeff-C175 said:

@Brockport Bill

 

And remember... MORE is NOT better!

 

If you look up the oil spec, and read the directions on the ZDDP bottle, then do the math, you will find that if you use the 30W T1 Rotella, that 1 Oz per Quart (of the Rislone brand) gives adequate Zn levels.

 

Adding more can cause the oil to become acidic over time and that's worse than no Zn at all!

 

 

Jeff -- the 1 oz is the info i needed -- 

[pfrederi 17,741]

13 minutes ago, Brockport Bill said:

so when you say "higher" letter, do you mean later in the alphabet -- when you say more advanced i assume you mean newer or more recent years? Thanks?

Yes 

[Brockport Bill 1,667]

just for the fun of it I have written email to Fram customer support to see what they have to say about their 30w oil and its API specs? Will post their answer !!

[pfrederi 17,741]

I hope their oil is higher quality than their oil filters

[Joe Shmo 157]

I don’t think I have ever seen Fram oil.

[Brockport Bill 1,667]

12 minutes ago, Joe Shmo said:

I don’t think I have ever seen Fram oil.

i am not accustomed to usually seeing Fram oil either --- I bought at an Advanced Auto Store in Hudson River Valley store in ny -- not sure if Advanced is national or regional chain??? the 30w is sometimes not typically in inventory many places but they stock it ....................heres an email repsonse when i wrote email to them today about the 30w.............. "The FRAM branded motor oils and fluids are licensed products. Advanced Auto Parts licensed the FRAM name and Amalie Oil Co is the maker of the oils."

[Joe Shmo 157]

32 minutes ago, Brockport Bill said:

i am not accustomed to usually seeing Fram oil either --- I bought at an Advanced Auto Store in Hudson River Valley store in ny -- not sure if Advanced is national or regional chain??? the 30w is sometimes not typically in inventory many places but they stock it ....................heres an email repsonse when i wrote email to them today about the 30w.............. "The FRAM branded motor oils and fluids are licensed products. Advanced Auto Parts licensed the FRAM name and Amalie Oil Co is the maker of the oils."

Hmm 

[Brockport Bill 1,667]

8 minutes ago, Joe Shmo said:

Hmm 

yeah.......... Hmmm............ was sorta my reaction - big corporate world out there

[Bill D 1,922]

My neighbor runs Mobil 1 10W-30 in his Kohler Command powered Exmark zero turn.  I'm thinking about switching to this oil.  I can get it at BJ's for $42 for 6 quarts.  According to their spec sheets it has 900ppm of zinc in it.  I know that's low compared to SJ rated oil, but I figure it should be fine due to the better overall lubrication properties of synthetic oils.  I can always add some extra ZDDP if I want.

[Brockport Bill 1,667]

9 minutes ago, Bill D said:

My neighbor runs Mobil 1 10W-30 in his Kohler Command powered Exmark zero turn.  I'm thinking about switching to this oil.  I can get it at BJ's for $42 for 6 quarts.  According to their spec sheets it has 900ppm of zinc in it.  I know that's low compared to SJ rated oil, but I figure it should be fine due to the better overall lubrication properties of synthetic oils.  I can always add some extra ZDDP if I want.

i was under impression 10w30 generally tops out at 80 degrees and below 0 degrees??? Our temps can be above and below those temps -- the 30w allows for increased temp ranges above 80 and below 0 degrees - yes/no? The kt 17 manual says 10w30 not recomended above 32 degrees due to "substaintially increased oil consumption and combustion chamber deposits"?? Kohler KT 17 Manual says use straight 30w.

[pfrederi 17,741]

I hate oil discussions.... If you are using your WH in a business with several hours a day every day then maybe the type of oil makes big difference.  For most of us with 50 hours or so a year changing the oil is much more important than what type of oil you use.

 

How many hours a year are you putting b on your machines...

Edited December 13, 2022 by pfrederi

[lynnmor 7,307]

I would like to think that some have found value in oil discussions.  The fact that SN oils have reduced anti-wear additives should be looked at as a downgrade.  For years, motor oil just kept getting better with each new rating, but that changed when the powers that be stuck their noses in the business.  For folks to dismiss the whole subject, I guess that you might believe that gasoline keeps getting better with the farm lobby interfering in that product.

[953 nut 55,285]

1 hour ago, Brockport Bill said:

i was under impression 10w30 generally tops out at 80 degrees and below 0 degrees??? Our temps can be above and below those temps -- the 30w allows for increased temp ranges above 80 and below 0 degrees - yes/no? The kt 17 manual says 10w30 not recomended above 32 degrees due to "substaintially increased oil consumption and combustion chamber deposits"?? Kohler KT 17 Manual says use straight 30w.

That 80 degrees is Celsius, right.

Optimum performance, for both economy and power, is achieved at temperatures around 100-107 degrees C (210-225 degrees F). Up to 120 degrees C (250 degrees F) is OK if a decent oil is used, but getting a little warm. Some engine builders believe oil should be kept around 80 degrees C (175 degrees F) to keep things ‘safe’. This simply is not high enough for best performance.

[pfrederi 17,741]

1 hour ago, lynnmor said:

I would like to think that some have found value in oil discussions.  The fact that SN oils have reduced anti-wear additives should be looked at as a downgrade.  For years, motor oil just kept getting better with each new rating, but that changed when the powers that be stuck their noses in the business.  For folks to dismiss the whole subject, I guess that you might believe that gasoline keeps getting better with the farm lobby interfering in that product.

Which is why i said add some Zddp

[Brockport Bill 1,667]

5 hours ago, 953 nut said:

That 80 degrees is Celsius, right.

Optimum performance, for both economy and power, is achieved at temperatures around 100-107 degrees C (210-225 degrees F). Up to 120 degrees C (250 degrees F) is OK if a decent oil is used, but getting a little warm. Some engine builders believe oil should be kept around 80 degrees C (175 degrees F) to keep things ‘safe’. This simply is not high enough for best performance.

953 nut --- the air temp in the service manual is what I was referencing in my earlier comments... not the engine/oil temp -- however, your engine temp/oil info was very interesting since i have zero knowledge about that -- thanks