Keys . . .

[Zeek 2,286]

I feel like I'm deja vu here. Red tractor, trying to get the keys out My Farmall H decided to spring a significant radiator leak which requires removing it.  That requires removing the steering shaft that goes through it. What I love about old equipment is it's pretty basic. Just work at it. I feel like I'm trying to get the key out of a Wheel Horse axle again

 

[ebinmaine 67,381]

Looks like more fun than a 🛢️ of 🐒🐒🐒🐒🐒

 

 

[ri702bill 8,307]

Fun with Woodruff Keys. I found two methods that work . Lightly tap the top of the key at one end, then the other downward to rock the key loose. Leave the end closest to you sticking up. take a pair of sidecutting pliers and lay the open jaws around the key flat on the shaft Close the pliers and pivot the handled down to raise the jaws - with the key.

 

This other "Marriage" of a Vise Grip and an autobody Dent Puller works the best - IF you have enough key exposed to grip... and you do not seem to...

Bill

 

 

[953 nut 55,155]

I use a slight modification of @ri702bill's method. Hammer it down at the front, hammer it down at the back then use a small cold chisel driven under the end to lift the key out of the slot.

Edited December 7, 2022 by 953 nut

[Pullstart 62,828]

  on both accounts, and add heat.  I know lots of people know about heat and oil, did you know heat and paraffin wax does wonders too?  It seems to hold it’s place better than oil as well.

[Handy Don 12,201]

I'm sure you know that the removed key cannot be reused, right?!

[ri702bill 8,307]

8 hours ago, Handy Don said:

I'm sure you know that the removed key cannot be reused, right?!

ONLY if you drop the new one and can't find it before dinnertime !!  

[Handy Don 12,201]

51 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

ONLY if you drop the new one and can't find it before dinnertime !!  

My spouse gave me one of those small HF magnetic bowls and I'm not sure how I managed without it 'til now.

Still drop stuff and spend lotsa time hunting, but at least if I get it into the bowl it can't scurry off while I'm not looking.

[rmaynard 15,434]

All of the above suggestions are good. However, not having the "vise grip puller" I almost always resort to the "tap it in the back and cold chisel" method. 

 

22 hours ago, Handy Don said:

I'm sure you know that the removed key cannot be reused, right?!

After I'm done getting it out Don, it's generally not recognizable as a Woodruff key.

[WHX?? 48,813]

Same as Richard's method here. I'm glad when they come out hard... usually means the way is good then. 

[ebinmaine 67,381]

12 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

. I'm glad when they come out hard... usually means the way is good then. 

That's a good point there

[pfrederi 17,695]

Dremel cutoff wheel slice it length wise down the center. Chisel in from both sides, pop out from the end.

[Zeek 2,286]

All good suggestions! I think I have enough at the one end to tap forward on with a chisel. I'll trying tapping down on the other end. I have used heat successfully on axles like @Pullstart said, but this one I can't get far enough away from the gas tank to feel comfortable with that  I do not think I have enough to grip with a vice-grip. I hit it with some penetrant until I can get back to it. 

 

I guess International did pretty good with radiators, because I can see by the mounting hardware on the underside (which is a bear to get to and off) this radiator hasn't been out in over 80 years unless it was early on by a dealer!

[ClassicTractorProfessor 5,314]

On 12/8/2022 at 9:25 PM, Zeek said:

All good suggestions! I think I have enough at the one end to tap forward on with a chisel. I'll trying tapping down on the other end. I have used heat successfully on axles like @Pullstart said, but this one I can't get far enough away from the gas tank to feel comfortable with that  I do not think I have enough to grip with a vice-grip. I hit it with some penetrant until I can get back to it. 

 

I guess International did pretty good with radiators, because I can see by the mounting hardware on the underside (which is a bear to get to and off) this radiator hasn't been out in over 80 years unless it was early on by a dealer!

Those mounting nuts can be tricky to get to, good thing you've got the narrow front end, I've got a 1951 M with the factory IH wide front axle that I need to pull the radiator out of, but in order to do so the whole front axle has to come out from under the tractor...the mount plate for the axle completely covers up any access to the radiator hardware.

[Zeek 2,286]

18 hours ago, ClassicTractorProfessor said:

Those mounting nuts can be tricky to get to, good thing you've got the narrow front end, I've got a 1951 M with the factory IH wide front axle that I need to pull the radiator out of, but in order to do so the whole front axle has to come out from under the tractor...the mount plate for the axle completely covers up any access to the radiator hardware.

 

I got the key out. I let it soak for few days, then hit one side down far enough that I could get a screwdriver the width of the slot and pound it down and under the key. It came out pretty well with minimal damage, so I can reuse it.

 

A far as the radiator mounts . . . I was super lucky in that my particular model had round access holes directly under the mounting bolts. That being said, I still needed to get the cotter pin out. Since they were so old, I just rocked both sides back and forth with a pair of long needle-nose pliers until they broke off. Then I tapped the socket on with a hammer and rocked the nut back and forth until it broke the pin the rest of the way and let the nuts come off  It worked and the radiator studs remained intact. While I have that all apart, the fan shroud needs replaced so I'll look for one on fleabay. I think based on some tuber videos, I'll use nylock nuts to replace the radiator and skip the cotter pin.

I'll pull the fan and clutch mechanism and clean all that up as well while I have it all apart because most of that is difficult to access with the radiator in place. I pulled the front wheels while I was at it and they get new rubber and tubes.

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by Zeek

[Handy Don 12,201]

That radiator looks in good shape and with a "fin combing" will look right nice!

[Zeek 2,286]

11 hours ago, Handy Don said:

That radiator looks in good shape and with a "fin combing" will look right nice!

 

I see I can get new one for about $360, but I called a local guy that's a "radiators only" person. I'm going to swing by after work tomorrow and he's going to look at it and tell me if it's worth repairing or just replace it.

[WHX?? 48,813]

Back in the day Zeek they all got repaired... course that might be a dead trade by now too. 

[ri702bill 8,307]

Used to have a good radiator repair shop here in town. He was honest and fairly priced. I had more than a few GM Harrison brass radiators serviced there. He would unsolder the tanks, rod the core, give it an acid bath, clean it all up, resolder the tanks and pressure test it at 10 PSI. Once I had one with core damage where a water pump bearing failed and the fan gouged up the core really bad, he had a good used similar one on hand, put my tanks on it Good for another 100,000 miles...

Bill

[ebinmaine 67,381]

2 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

Used to have a good radiator repair shop here in town. He was honest and fairly priced. I had more than a few GM Harrison brass radiators serviced there. He would unsolder the tanks, rod the core, give it an acid bath, clean it all up, resolder the tanks and pressure test it at 10 PSI. Once I had one with core damage where a water pump bearing failed and the fan gouged up the core really bad, he had a good used similar one on hand, put my tanks on it Good for another 100,000 miles...

Bill

 

 

We had one of them about 30 minutes either side of the town I grew up in back in the 80s and '90s. In fact I remember thinking  that it was unusual to buy a whole radiator instead of having one fixed.

[ri702bill 8,307]

Just now, ebinmaine said:

We had one of them about 30 minutes either side of the town I grew up in back in the 80s and '90s. In fact I remember thinking  that it was unusual to buy a whole radiator instead of having one fixed.

Those days are gone for the most part since the OEM's switched to aluminum cores and crimped on plastic tanks. The guy I mentioned said he had replaced a cracked tank on an otherwise good newer radiator - took him 3 tries to get the new tank to seal.... not worth his time. The new style ones are throwaways now.

[peter lena 8,600]

@Zeek   have a 6"  C   CLAMP ?  that shaft keyway  , could be  squeezed  at end of keyway point  , kroil  oil , probably "  rocker up  "  with down pressure , had that work easily . pete  

[Zeek 2,286]

6 minutes ago, peter lena said:

@Zeek   have a 6"  C   CLAMP ?  that shaft keyway  , could be  squeezed  at end of keyway point  , kroil  oil , probably "  rocker up  "  with down pressure , had that work easily . pete  

 

Yep, I got it all finished last weekend. I created a new post here.

[ebinmaine 67,381]

28 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

Those days are gone for the most part since the OEM's switched to aluminum cores and crimped on plastic tanks. The guy I mentioned said he had replaced a cracked tank on an otherwise good newer radiator - took him 3 tries to get the new tank to seal.... not worth his time. The new style ones are throwaways now.

 

One of the two companies I mentioned about. We rarely dealt with them. But the other one was a very steady basis and more than one parts store.

Family owned. Great bunch of folks. They were telling me back 25-30 years ago as soon as the plastic and aluminum radiators came out in the Camaros and others in the 80s they stopped touching them.

Even back at that point you could purchase replacements that were three different ways, mixed materials as factory, all steel, or all aluminum.

Obviously those second two would be repairable for future needs.