Engine swapping??

[screech 16]

Will the engines from "H, hydralic" tractors swap into "8 speed" tractors?

Thank You!!!

[WHGuy413 2,693]

If you are talking will the engines from an automatic wheel horse say a c-160 hydro then yes that is the same engine that would be in a c-160 8 speed. Just using those as an example. The engines were the same the transmissions were different.

[screech 16]

29 minutes ago, WHGuy413 said:

If you are talking will the engines from an automatic wheel horse say a c-160 hydro then yes that is the same engine that would be in a c-160 8 speed. Just using those as an example. The engines were the same the transmissions were different.

Exactly, I am thinking an engine from a 416H, 418H or a 520H and putting it into a c-105 or a 312-8.

Thank you.

[BESTDOGEVER 218]

Usually the main engine pulley is ddifferent which will change the drive belt size. Using the original pulley should keep everything the same 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lee1977 6,663]

if you are replacing a Kohler with a Onan the wireing may be different. The c-105 and early 312 had a K-series, the later 312's had Magnums.

[screech 16]

My 314-8 with a 48" deck does not have the power I need for mowing. I see many hydraulic tractors for sale, but few bigger HP 8 speeds. So I thought about buying one of these "H" tractors for the engine. Thank You

[953 nut 55,284]

If the ignition systems are both battery powered with points and a coil there will be some slight wiring and choke/throttle cable changes, As already mentioned the pulley on the engine of a Hydro tractor is larger than on an 8 eight speed. You would be able to use your pulley from the present engine on the replacement.

[Sailman 1,291]

Not sure if I followed the thread right but it sounds like the 14 HP does not have enough power so you are looking at 16 or bigger. I have a 416-8, C-160 and a GT 14 (14 HP). I can tell little difference between the 16 and 14 HP tractors so you might need to go bigger than the 16 if you are looking for more power. Just my $.02 worth.

[ebinmaine 67,562]

31 minutes ago, Sailman said:

Not sure if I followed the thread right but it sounds like the 14 HP does not have enough power so you are looking at 16 or bigger. I have a 416-8, C-160 and a GT 14 (14 HP). I can tell little difference between the 16 and 14 HP tractors so you might need to go bigger than the 16 if you are looking for more power. Just my $.02 worth.

 

 

I agree.  

 

Whether an engine is in a hydro or manual has no bearing on power. 

A 14 is a 14. 

A 20 is a 20 etc.  

 

 

A 14 HP in an 8 speed tractor should be able to cut "most" things. 

Have you done a proper tuneup?

Maintenance?

Non ethanol gas?

New fuel lines?

Mower deck proper maintenance? 

Are you in too high of a gear?

 

Just some food for thought... 

[Racinbob 11,085]

I agree with Eric. A 14hp should be plenty. I've mowed for years using 11hp and 12hp tractors with 48's. Something must not be right. 

[pacer 3,173]

I agree, a 14hp in good condition should handle a 48" deck with relative ease. 

 

HP can, of course be a factor -- I had a 10hp kohler (241) trying to drive a 48" and it struggled.

 

Course depends on what your cutting too - I've got a 20hp twin on my D200 and if I get into some heavy stuff even it will have to take it slower.

[Pullstart 62,905]

12 hours ago, screech said:

Exactly, I am thinking an engine from a 416H, 418H or a 520H and putting it into a c-105 or a 312-8.

Thank you.

 

1 hour ago, Sailman said:

Not sure if I followed the thread right but it sounds like the 14 HP does not have enough power so you are looking at 16 or bigger. I have a 416-8, C-160 and a GT 14 (14 HP). I can tell little difference between the 16 and 14 HP tractors so you might need to go bigger than the 16 if you are looking for more power. Just my $.02 worth.

It looks like we are talking about 10 or 12 hp machines.  Maybe rollers?

[oldlineman 1,481]

Yes I am turning a 48 " deck with a 1989 414-8 and it has plenty of power even in higher grass. You may not be getting the HP out of your engine because of engine wear or other engine problems. Bob

[Pullstart 62,905]

9 minutes ago, oldlineman said:

You may not be getting the HP out of your engine because of engine wear or other engine problems.

But we don’t know if the 8 speed tractors even have engines to start.. we need a little more info from @screech 

[lynnmor 7,307]

12 hours ago, screech said:

My 314-8 with a 48" deck does not have the power I need for mowing.

 

Are you running the engine at full throttle?  It needs 3600 RPM to develop maximum horsepower.  Are the blades sharpened correctly?

[Pullstart 62,905]

I didn’t see the mention of running a different 14 horse, my apologies.

[Alex175 784]

16 hours ago, BESTDOGEVER said:

Usually the main engine pulley is different

 

This is correct, I just recently took a KT17 out of a 417-8 to replace the KT17 in my C-175 Hydro, got really confused when the belt looked way too long after the swap, turned out it was all in the size of the pulley.

 

[rick 233]

15 hours ago, screech said:

My 314-8 with a 48" deck does not have the power I need for mowing. I see many hydraulic tractors for sale, but few bigger HP 8 speeds. So I thought about buying one of these "H" tractors for the engine. Thank You

My 700 hour 1997 314-8 with a 48" deck works fine.  I do cut in 1st gear full throttle because my improved pasture lawn is a little rough.  I am retired so it isn't a problem to cut it when the grass is an inch or more above cut length.  I sharpen and balance the blades every three cuttings, which adds up to 9 hours of steady cutting. 

[SylvanLakeWH 25,596]

10 hp cuts through this no problem... 1st gear high.

 

Just my 

[Blasterdad 2,692]

I run a 48" deck on my C-120 no problem, never had it bog down, but the tractor & deck are both very well maintained.

 

[clueless 3,002]

15 hours ago, screech said:

My 314-8 with a 48" deck does not have the power I need for mowing. I see many hydraulic tractors for sale, but few bigger HP 8 speeds. So I thought about buying one of these "H" tractors for the engine. Thank You

If the 14hp is not smoking or burning oil I think your grass cutting problem may not be the engine. What are you cutting, 14hp with a 8sp is plenty of hp even with a 48" deck. My old 8hp B-80 with a 42" beck cut thick patches of grass for many years as long as it wasn't higher than 3.5 inches.

[ranger 1,750]

If it’s a Magnum engine I believe the max rpm is 3200 as opposed to 3600 on the earlier versions. With the non adjustable version of the Walbro carb, I don’t think you’re supposed to increase the max rpm, due to the risk of engine damage caused by a too lean mixture, unless you change the carb to the older style with adjustable high speed mixture screw?

[BESTDOGEVER 218]

Just a thought if the hydro tractor is in working condition Just put the deck on it and save all that extra work, a half hour deck install vs all the stuff to change over electrical and then fabricate mount plates ect.

 

[Tuneup 1,433]

My old 12 before the rebuild would struggle with the 48 (the 516 was being rebuilt) so I had no choice). These engines are dated to say the least and my initial piston replacement on the 12 included roughing the cylinder with stones. It made a minor dent only and she never really came to her potential. After an .020 bore and a real honing, it's a beast. I would argue a well-tuned and fresh K301 or 321 would be up to the job. I mow in 2nd, albeit over a mixture of fescue and dirt. Heavier, healthy lawns, well, that would be different. All that said, a twin's torque would give you what you want. My Onan doesn't care, and it helps that those stones set-up those aluminum cylinders quite well.