Vacuum vs electric vs original fuel pumps

[AHS 1,440]

@ebinmaine @OldWorkHorse I used my last steel fuel pump on a tractor that I’m gonna be selling. On eBay, if you type in “K301 fuel pump” they bring up these cheap plastic fuel pumps. I realize they are not making steel fuel pumps anymore. What are vacuum ones? They have to have a vacuum hose? I’ve heard of electric ones. Do they have a block off plate for the fuel pump once you use an electric one? What do you just wire the electric fuel pump off “I” on the ignition switch? The reliability of electric vs vacuum vs stock?  I’m full of questions! I wanna see what you have, post pictures please! 

[Achto 27,571]

19 minutes ago, AHS said:

I realize they are not making steel fuel pumps anymore

 

Even a new Kohler brand pump is plastic.  I have not had any bad luck with the plastic body pumps.

 

Some Kohler vacuum pumps bolt in the same location as the mechanical one does. They use the crank case pulse pressure to operate. You could use a vacuum pump from a Briggs, you just need to run a hose to a pulse vacuum location. ( block off plate for the old pump with a hose barb threaded into it for example)

 

Electric pump you would be best to wire it to the ignition terminal on the switch or if you have a magneto ignition to a terminal that is live with the switch in the ON position. You can leave your old pump hang on the engine or make a block off plate.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Achto

[ri702bill 8,319]

16 minutes ago, AHS said:

What are vacuum ones? They have to have a vacuum hose?

The vacuum ones look just like the regular metal ones - externally. They do not have the lever operated by the lobe on the cam - they rely on the internal vacuum in the crankcase as the piston moves up and down to activate them. Same long term issue as the lever version - when (not "if") the diaphragm fails, you end up diluting the oil with raw gasoline - not good.

 

Electric LOW PRESSUSE pumps work fine and are helpful to start a tank-under-the-seat model easier if it been sitting for a while unused...

Bill

[Handy Don 12,217]

36 minutes ago, AHS said:

not making steel fuel pumps anymore.

I believe that the metal Kohler pumps were castings of aluminum or some other alloy, not steel. @ri702bill?

As have many before me in other threads, I'll ask why abandon the existing pump and not refurb it? Rebuild kits are inexpensive, pretty easy to install, and work pretty darn well in my experience.

That said, for tractors with under-seat fuel tanks that are left idle for long-ish periods a primer bulb or an electric fuel pump may be useful for getting quicker starts.

[ri702bill 8,319]

2 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

castings of aluminum or some other alloy, not steel.

Don - Diecast aluminum alloy, I believe. Never saw one rust !!

[Bill D 1,920]

I started using vacuum pumps awhile ago.  I made a plate to mount it to the engine in place of the stock mechanical pump.  Works great.  I use either Kawasaki or Briggs pumps.  They are made in Japan by Mikuni.  If you're going to do something like this use a high quality OEM pump to lessen the chance of having gas in your crankcase oil.

[AHS 1,440]

33 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

Don - Diecast aluminum alloy, I believe. Never saw one rust !!

Dah, yup!

 

[AHS 1,440]

@Bill D oh ya, I’ve seen vacuum pumps on older snowmobiles! 
 

[JoeM 7,874]

2 hours ago, Achto said:

 I have not had any bad luck with the plastic body pumps.

At least the ethanol won't eat them up!

I have used them worked okay for me. 

 

What @Bill D is using has a much less chance of draining gas into the oil. 

 

Machines I keep generally get changed over to electric.

[pacer 3,169]

I LOVE my 'lectrics!!  Turn the key on, wait 5-6 seconds listening to it chatter and crank it up! Theyre cheap and make a huge difference in starting (get the square one - NOT the round ones!)

 

2 hours ago, AHS said:

Diecast aluminum alloy, I believe

Generally called "pot metal" one tech name is/was? 'Zamac' Had a lot of tin in it I believe.....

[953 nut 55,225]

I have ben using low pressure electric fuel pumps for several years and have had no failures, The thing that makes me prefer electric over Vacuum or mechanical fuel pumps is the fact that there is no potential for a diaphragm leak to cause gas to contaminate the engine oil. 

Mount the pump low on the frame so it has a "flooded suction" and wire it to an accessory circuit like the hour meter or directly to the ignition switch "A" terminal. Use a 10 amp inline fuse to protect the wiring.

[AHS 1,440]

@953 nut what pump do you use? I notice 90% are round pumps. I notice that they are metric, any special fitting that you have to use? 

[ri702bill 8,319]

15 hours ago, pacer said:

'Zamac' Had a lot of tin in it I believe.....

That is a trade name for a zinc - tin alloy used in diecasting. It comes in 5 different grades - variations on the proportion of zinc to tin.

[953 nut 55,225]

1 hour ago, AHS said:

what pump do you use?

These are $ 25.00 on    

[pacer 3,169]

This is the type I've had problems with, short life, dead out of box, etc

 

 

 

 

 

This type I have had good luck with, no problems.

@953 nut Have been seeing that type you show lately and may try it next time.

 

 

[Racinbob 11,079]

I used a Mr. Gasket #42s on my 2005 to solve the gas tank under the seat issue. It's been working great for over three years now with heavy use. I had purchased two of the el-cheapo  HEP-02a but I decided not to use them on 'critical' machines. I did end up putting one of them on my 854 sickle bar tractor and so far so good. 

 

I watched a video on the cheap plastic mechanical pumps. It was suggested to put a few drops of motor oil on the mechanism before installing them to extend their life. Sure couldn't hurt. 

 

 

 

[davem1111 2,030]

2 hours ago, 953 nut said:

These are $ 25.00 on    

 

 

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but I'll mention it here too.   I have this pump on 2 different tractors, and have had very good luck with them so far. First one might be a year old or a bit over that.  They are a bit loud - if you have it wired to the key and turn the key on but don't engage the starter, you can hear the pump running. Which could be a good thing or a bad thing. In my case, I am reminded by this not to leave the key on. 

 

I might actually order a spare to have on hand. I think I paid a good bit more for them than $25.

 

[oldlineman 1,481]

Very good up grade for many reasons such as Richard has mentioned. Here is how I did mine, no regrets fast starts. Bob

[AHS 1,440]

@oldlineman what do you use to block off the stock fuel pump? Just a fuel pump old fuel pump with lines dead ended?

[oldlineman 1,481]

you can leave the old fuel pump installed or make or buy a cover for the opening. I bought one, can't remember the part # off hand, maybe someone can share it. My tractor had the mounting holes already, didn't have to drill any holes for the pump. It was a Faucet low pressure pump a little pricey but you only get what you pay for in my opinion. Cover plate # is 240282. Bob

Edited November 30, 2022 by oldlineman

[Handy Don 12,217]

1 hour ago, AHS said:

@oldlineman what do you use to block off the stock fuel pump? Just a fuel pump old fuel pump with lines dead ended?

Leaving the old pump is ok as long as its internal diaphragm is intact (to prevent the engine from trying to "breathe" through an unfiltered opening).

With the diaphragm intact, however, plugging the input & output will not stop it from trying to pump.

Several members have removed the pump entirely and fabricated a gasketed plate to seal the opening. That's what I would do.

[rick 233]

The Facet pumps are available in a low pressure rating (1 to 2 psi) suitable to our small engines.  They work best mounted low and close to the fuel tank since they push fuel better than they pull it.  Just sayin'...

 

[RED-Z06 2,221]

The electric pumps come in 2 flavors, vane style and pulse style.  Vane style hum, pulse style click/rattle.

 

Ive had much better luck with the pulse style, in the lower priced options.  Vane pumps, in the lower price range dont hold up long.  They also seem to draw less amps.

[Blasterdad 2,692]

I too just make a block off plate, easy to do, just use the gasket as a template.

 

[WHX?? 48,815]

On 11/29/2022 at 9:36 AM, AHS said:

used my last steel fuel pump on a tractor that I’m gonna be selling.

My  is if you are going to be selling put a plastic one on and knock on wood. I've had new ones work and ones that didn't.  I would never let a metal one go out of my hands unless it was to a bro here. Just becoming too rare. I wouldn't go through the trouble of going electric unless she was going to stay with the herd or again going to a bro here. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by WHX??