Installing a new gas log

[RandyLittrell 3,882]

Have a safety/protocall question. My Dad and I installed a vented style gas log many years ago and I hate it since it just sucks all the heat out of the house with a flue open a bit.

 

I bought a ventless style last year and am getting ready to install it. My gas will only shut off at the street side valve, don't have a valve between coming in the house and the fireplace, only before the furnace and water heater.

 

I know Dad and I just shut it off before the meter and then turned it back on when done. 

 

Any reason I can't just do the same? Should I call the gas company or hire someone to hook it up. Just don't want to cause a problem or issue at the meter. Would rather just pay someone to do the final hookup rather than get in trouble with the gas company. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks, Randy

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by RandyLittrell

[rmaynard 15,461]

It's not hard to install a shut-off at the heater. Do you have black iron pipe or flexible stainless steel?

[oldlineman 1,481]

I always liked a shut off at each appliance, not sure what code is though. Bob

[SylvanLakeWH 25,563]

Always want a shutoff at the appliance.

 

[Racinbob 11,081]

There's a shutoff at the meter. 

First, as with electricity, if there's any doubt call a professional. Gas is nothing to mess with.

We switched to a gas range a couple years ago. I ran a csst line to it. That's corrugated stainless steel tubing that @rmaynard is referring to. The fittings are a bit pricy but I love the stuff and it has advantages over iron pipe. A shut off is required at all appliances. That's national and local codes can't eliminate it. First, I shut off the gas at the meter. Then I installed this where I tapped into the existing piping. 

 

 

This one wasn't required but it allowed me to get the gas back on as sooner. I ran the line and ended the csst at a short section of iron so I could get a firmer mount to the joists. Don't forget the required drop pipe near the destination. 

 

 

From there it's up through the floor, the code required valve and connection to the range.

Make sure everything is sized correctly for the cfm required. All the info to do that is easily found online. Csst is different than iron pipe. Again, if in doubt, call a professional. 

CHECK AND RECHECK FOR LEAKS WITH A SOLUTION AS WELL AS YOUR SNIFFER. ALWAYS HAVE A GAS DETECTOR IN PLACE. 

 

 

 

 

[WHX?? 48,816]

Just shut it off at the meter. If you notice a little smell around that valve after opening it call the gas Co. and they can regrease it with a special tool they have. All in a days work for them. 

Do install a gas cock before the appliance. 

Personally I would worry about your ventless appliance. There is no such thing as ventless... burning anything always produces carbon monoxide. 

[JCM 9,168]

I hate when my attitude comes out. If you don't have a license for working with NFPA 54 and NFPA 58 don't do gasfitting, sorry. Ventless, forget about it.

[RandyLittrell 3,882]

36 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Just shut it off at the meter. If you notice a little smell around that valve after opening it call the gas Co. and they can regrease it with a special tool they have. All in a days work for them. 

 

That is what I was gonna do, I know that is what Dad and I did the first time. Dad just isn't here anymore and he was always my google before google was around, and I tend to over analyze things sometimes! 

 

40 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Do install a gas cock before the appliance.

 

My gas line comes in the basement, then up to the ceiling and into a T going into the chimney and comes up into the back of the firebox. Would it be okay to put a gas cock inside the firebox? I don't know why not since the valve to turn on the gas is there as well. No easy way to add the gas cock before going into the fireplace. 

 

43 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Personally I would worry about your ventless appliance. There is no such thing as ventless... burning anything always produces carbon monoxide.

 

I don't think it will put out any more fumes than a gas stove and it has a O2 sensor. I do live in a hundred year old house, so not so sealed up. It really isn't gonna put out that much heat either, but it just won't go up the flu this way. 

 

 

Thanks for the help. 

 

Randy

[squonk 41,120]

1 hour ago, Racinbob said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I take Wilt Chamberlain was never in your basement Bob! 

[RandyLittrell 3,882]

1 hour ago, rmaynard said:

It's not hard to install a shut-off at the heater. Do you have black iron pipe or flexible stainless steel?

 

Black iron pipe in a hundred year old house. I will install one now, just wasn't one there already. Furnace and water both have them, not sure why the fireplace doesn't. I still have a coal door in the basement, so no natural gas originally. 

 

 

Randy

[Racinbob 11,081]

1 hour ago, squonk said:

I take Wilt Chamberlain was never in your basement Bob! 

 

Not a problem Mike. Even he would have to jump to bang his head. The ductwork and main beam down the center are lower. The walls aren't the typical form poured walls. They are what's called Ice Block. A steel structure encapsulated in foam. R-39 and taller than normal. 

[Racinbob 11,081]

1 hour ago, RandyLittrell said:

 

I don't think it will put out any more fumes than a gas stove and it has a O2 sensor. I do live in a hundred year old house, so not so sealed up. It really isn't gonna put out that much heat either, but it just won't go up the flu this way. 

 

 

Thanks for the help. 

 

Randy

 I tend to side with Jim. I'm sure they are fine with so many out there but still.....

We removed the woodburner that was here. We discussed a gas unit and considered both vented and non-vented. Decided on neither. There's some pretty impressive electric units out there now for the pretties but we decided against that too. 

[953 nut 55,246]

Regardless of who does the installation get a permit and have the work inspected. If you have the misfortune of having a fire the insurance company will look for noncompliance issues. Even if the work you did is not the cause of the fire they will try to reduce the settlement if code compliance issues are found.         

[JoeM 7,874]

I have a ventless in my man cave and it leaves a film on all the walls and windows, just in a few weeks. I have sinus issues when I use it if i am in there too long. I leave a window cracked and it helps. Gas here is cheaper than electric and now considering going to something else in gas but vented.

We run an wall mounted electric heater on low to keep it heated it works fine but would rather have gas heat out there.

All branch circuits need valves no reason to leave it out compared to the price of a new heater. 

[RandyLittrell 3,882]

11 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Regardless of who does the installation get a permit and have the work inspected. If you have the misfortune of having a fire the insurance company will look for noncompliance issues. Even if the work you did is not the cause of the fire they will try to reduce the settlement if code compliance issues are found.         

 

You are absolutey right and may do just that. I just have a hard time making myself pay someone else to do things! 

 

 

 

Randy

[WHX?? 48,816]

 

2 hours ago, JCM said:

 NFPA 54 and NFPA 58

Funny you should bring them up Plunge... when I was an apprentice I had to study them end to end. 

1 hour ago, RandyLittrell said:

Would it be okay to put a gas cock inside the firebox? 

No absolutely not they are not rated for heat and need to be outside the firebox. There are keyed gas c0cks designed to be installed on the surround but a bastage to install retro if not impossible on masonry units. Gas piping should be replaced back in the basement to where you can get a valve in off the main is best.

I hear what yer saying about a leaky house Randy so may not be a big deal. I live in one too

Make sure you got co & smoke detectors about tho. 

Pics of your hearth set up would help us keep you from paying Plunges level of wages!  

Edited November 27, 2022 by WHX??

[Racinbob 11,081]

12 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Regardless of who does the installation get a permit and have the work inspected. If you have the misfortune of having a fire the insurance company will look for noncompliance issues. Even if the work you did is not the cause of the fire they will try to reduce the settlement if code compliance issues are found.         

 

I like that advice and I'm sure it has made for many safer installations in some areas. It wouldn't help here. The 'inspectors' here and in surrounding counties are actually multitrade home inspectors. The likes of which that do the inspections for real estate transactions. Now really, has anyone ever seen a home inspection that's worth the paper it's written on? Seriously. They are just home inspectors and no more. I never have them done but, of course, if I'm selling a house and the new buyer requests one I have no choice. I did make an exception when we first moved back here from Florida. It wasn't possible for me to do a proper inspection so I had one done. The report came back decent so we proceeded to purchase the house. These are just a small sample of what I discovered when we got up here. 

On the report this was referred to as an open electrical box. Suggested solution, put cover on box. 

 

Another small sample. No picture and nothing mentioned about any of this.

 

I don't need to mention the electrical. Also notice the structural issues. Note the floor tile. Yes, asbestos. The 1" iron water line. It came from an old 'abandoned' water well that was still hooked up. I flipped a taped off breaker on and the pump started. This old system was tied into the new system that was installed a few years prior to us buying it. When I pulled it out the stuff in the tank didn't resemble water. As I said, this was just the tip of the iceberg. 

I bring this all up because I'm sure this isn't the only local area with this issue. If I would have had a clue before we bought the house I would have hired independent I professional inspectors for the critical systems. Unfortunately we never would have purchased the house after seeing the proper inspections. The first thing to ask the folks at the building dept. is if they use multitrade inspectors. Then make your decision. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Racinbob

[RandyLittrell 3,882]

17 hours ago, WHX?? said:

 

Funny you should bring them up Plunge... when I was an apprentice I had to study them end to end. 

No absolutely not they are not rated for heat and need to be outside the firebox. There are keyed gas c0cks designed to be installed on the surround but a bastage to install retro if not impossible on masonry units. Gas piping should be replaced back in the basement to where you can get a valve in off the main is best.

I hear what yer saying about a leaky house Randy so may not be a big deal. I live in one too

Make sure you got co & smoke detectors about tho. 

Pics of your hearth set up would help us keep you from paying Plunges level of wages!  

 

I will get some pics, this is just for burning once in awhile to enjoy or if the power is out. Not about to burn the house down over it. Of course, what I have has been in there for 20 years now, but I like to do things right. 

 

 

Randy