No Spark on 417-8

[Tenday 24]

Experts - help please. I’m new to Wheel Horse Tractor life! 
 

So - I’ve pulled out an inherited tractor and have decided to resurrect her. Unfortunately, no spark :/ 

 

I’m looking for help on diagnosing no spark. 

 

model - 417-8 

engine - Kohler KT17

 

Done thus far:  (aware that some have no implication on spark.) 

 

- new ignition switch 

- new battery 

- new starter

- new ignition coil and wires w/ plugs 

- new condenser 

- new points 

- new starter solenoid 

- bypassed all switches except oil and seat. 

notes:

idiot lights removed. 

 

All fuses tested with Ohms as well as visual inspection  .. 

 

coil tested w/ ohms as well

 

all switches bypassed except: 
-oil switch  ( don’t think it has any implications other than a visual indication for idiot lights. ) 

-seat switch 

 

ran a pos from batt direct to pos of coil - nothing; no spark. 

 

 

Electric is as follows:  
 

- Starter switch wired to solenoid

- - solenoid to starter 

- - solenoid to batt

 

- one wire from starter switch goes to engine ( I think this is for batt charge / flywheel) 

 

- I have two yellow wires, which are married up, that go to engine which have constant power; They power coil.  Comes from switch and seat. 

 

 

 

Help - what the heck am I missing ? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,088]

Welcome to the forum.

Have you cleaned the ignition points?

Post the engine spec number so we know what engine you have.

[Tenday 24]

Are you recommending that I clean points on a new unit ? ( please see list of new parts.)

 

 Will post engine spec number later today.

 

 

Thank you.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,088]

Yes new points need to be cleaned. The contact surfaces can be oxidized or sometimes a product is added to keep them from oxidizing.

 

You can check this with a voltmeter.

Connect to the (-) coil terminal.

With the points open you should have 12 volts or more.

With the points closed you should have 0 volts.

If you have 12 volts or more with the points closed the points are not making electrical contact. They need to pull the coil (-) to ground each time they close to get spark.

 

[953 nut 55,698]

We always like to hear about a family owned Wheel Horse receiving some love from a new generation.

Like @gwest_ca said, new points should be cleaned, with the points closed just open them manually, insert a dollar bill between the contacts and slide it back and forth, don't use sand paper or a file.

This wiring diagram should be helpful.

 

[Tenday 24]

Thank you for the diagram - I have it pinned on the self proclaimed ‘shop’ wall and have essentially memorized it. All circuits have been bypassed in an effort to mitigate variables. Circuit now, I think, is rudimentary. 
 

I will test voltage and clean point by noon. Will provide results. 
 

Thanks for everyone’s time. 

[oliver2-44 9,831]

16 hours ago, Tenday said:

ran a pos from batt direct to pos of coil - nothing; no spark. 

Just an FYI, you only want to do this temporarily when your ready to crank the engine and disconnect as soon as you stop engine or stop cranking.  Leaving a hot connected to a coil that is not firing can burn it out.

Edited November 22, 2022 by oliver2-44

[Snoopy11 5,714]

Points should be gapped properly as well. Doesn't look like anyone mentioned that.

 

Is that something that you know how to do @Tenday

 

If we could also have a few pictures of your system, that would be exceptionally helpful.

 

EDIT: Oh, and welcome to the forum! Glad to have you here!

 

Don

Edited November 22, 2022 by Snoopy11

[Tenday 24]

Well gentleman - once points were gapped ( .020 )  and cleaned, on the new unit, she fired right up…. 
 

I’ll be honest, I thought there was no way it would work .. My blissful ignorance  
 

Thank you so much for your time and valuable feedback.  I hope one day to contribute as you guys do ! 

Thank You !!! 
 

Mark 

 

 

 

 

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

14 hours ago, Tenday said:

Well gentleman - once points were gapped ( .020 )  and cleaned, on the new unit, she fired right up…. 

Oh that's wonderful! Glad to hear it!

 

Hope she'll give you many more years of service!

 

Don

[Tenday 24]

Ok - one more issue… sigh …. 
 

fuel not getting to carb ..  

 

I have a new fuel pump and fuel is not getting to carb. Tried with old pump and new pump.

 

Is there a procedure to prime ? 
 

thanks in advance. 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

19 minutes ago, Tenday said:

I have a new fuel pump and fuel is not getting to carb. Tried with old pump and new pump.

 

Is there a procedure to prime ? 

Personally, I would spray carb cleaner into the carburetor and crank the engine over... running it on carb cleaner until it gets fuel. Should take only a few seconds for it to get fuel...

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

And...

 

Say you replace your fuel filter... or you run the machine completely out of fuel. This obviously empties the fuel out of the system... usually. If you continue to crank the engine over... it should pull fuel through... eventually.

 

BUT.. I always use carb cleaner to get my machines going after changing the fuel filter, fuel line, or fuel pump. It saves wear on the starter and battery... and like I said... usually takes 5-10 seconds for fuel to pull into the carburetor and it will run on its own.

 

Don

[Tenday 24]

Thank you for the prompt feedback. 
 

no luck  

 

I think I bought a faulty one ( confession, it’s a cheap aftermarket.) 

 

It’s a trivial install I think. e.g., the mechanical arm does not need to be aligned or placed w/ specific insertion. As I understand , no priming is needed. 

 

I was thinking about going electric but hope to keep true to parts w/ restoration. ( long term, I will be replacing harness , lights, switches etc ..)

 

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

3 hours ago, Tenday said:

 

I think I bought a faulty one ( confession, it’s a cheap aftermarket.)

Give Lincoln at AZ tractor a call after Thanksgiving, he may have a semi-cheap used replacement fuel pump...

 

There are other places to buy new ones as well, such as Isavetractors

 

Don

[Tenday 24]

Conclusion - took the diaphragm from new faulty unit and put on old unit. She’s a’ runnin’ like a gem.  It was a bad BRAND NEW , non OEM, fuel pump. 
 

I stumbled upon an article about mechanical fuel pumps being serviceable; this combined with a splash of motivation and pinch of desperation !!

 

 

THANKS ALL!!! 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

3 minutes ago, Tenday said:

splash of motivation and pinch of desperation

That is absolutely great to hear!

 

If you need anything else at all, do let us know!

 

Regards,

 

Snoop-Don

[Tuneup 1,433]

Today, just about any new part has to be initially suspect. I'm starting to think that the Chinese are doing it on purpose. Car parts nowadays have to almost exclusively be OEM - and don't fall for the Chinese method of duplicating the OEM logos. You have to go to the dealer to be sure. Not wishing to get conspiratorial on y'all...

For the record, I got tired of all the lengthy cranking to get that fuel up to the engine from under the seat. Added a squeeze bulb to each and squeeze two or three times until the carb valve closes and it's an insta-start. Save those starters!