Tearing into the C-160 Transmission.

[GAJoe 844]

Well a couple of the guys here convinced me that I wanted to keep her and repair the rear end. A big shout out to 953 nut for sending me:

That is a very detailed journey of the repair that I need to do. I dove in today and got the transmission off and have it almost ready to crack open.

From the picture that I have loaded you can see part of the seal has come out of the rear end around the shaft. Just to help those that go to checK out and possibly buy a WH, if uou see a plastic ring around the shaft between the tranny and the hub that is part of a failed seal. And if you look closely you'll se paint discolored from a torch that was done some time back to replace the seal. If I had noticed these things while doing my inspection before buying I could have asked the history and cause of the seal replacement. Having seen this I jacked the rear end up and feel up/down play in that shaft. The bad bearing is the cause of both seal failures. Hind sight I'm glad that I didn't pick it up; I may not have bought it if I had. Thanks to 953 nut and ebinmaine I now know how lucky I am to have this beauty even if it needs a repair. Thanks for your honesty to a stranger.

I do have a couple questions. That High/Low shifter made it almost impossible to lower the transmission down from the main frame. I see a roll pin it appears near the transmission.

How should I remove it without doing internal damage as hammering a drift pin on it.

 

I'm thinking that if I get it out to replace it with a stainless machine screw and lock nut so that I can leave the shifter off until the transmission is bolted back up to the frame. What do y'all think?

 

[GAJoe 844]

Also the main drive pully that the belt from the motor turns was apparently rubbing against the case. You can see the wear on the pulley. Was this caused by a bad assembly at the factory or do I need to suspect something wrong inside causing this?

[ebinmaine 67,464]

Excellent.  

Glad to see you tackling this.  

 

Your next challenge will be to remove the hubs. 

Please do NOT use a 3 jaw puller. 

There are home shop made pullers that work well. Access to a press is even better.   

 

On that roll pin...

EDIT. 

Use the roll pin.   

 

All the bearings, seals and gaskets are available from Lowell at Wheelhorse Parts and More along with other sources. 

On reassembly use a gasket between the case halves, installed dry.  

 

Fire away with questions...

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by ebinmaine
Fixed incorrect information

[ebinmaine 67,464]

2 minutes ago, GAJoe said:

Also the main drive pully that the belt from the motor turns was apparently rubbing against the case. You can see the wear on the pulley. Was this caused by a bad assembly at the factory or do I need to suspect something wrong inside causing this?

 

Difficult to say without having been involved with the disassembly... Perhaps a PO installed it too far on?

Perhaps the set screw was loose?

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

@davem1111 you might want to keep an eye on this thread, may help you in the future!

 

Don

[953 nut 55,215]

I see you have already removed the hitch pin, considering the condition this C-160 is in the hubs will probably not be too much of a challenge either. There are several posts on here about hub removal. As @ebinmaine mentioned you don't want to use a three jaw puller or a hammer. This post by @meadowfield is very good. The other one by @Maxwell-8 has some good ideas too. Many auto parts supply stores will loan you a "Bearing Splitter" so you can pull from behind the hub rather than from the face.

 

 

[Horse Newbie 7,069]

I will add… when you reinstall the hubs, use anti-seize on the axle where the hub meets the axle. This should make for easy removal if you ever have to remove the hubs again.

I would also use new set screws with new lock nuts. You can order them from McMaster-Carr.

[ebinmaine 67,464]

Just now, Horse Newbie said:

use new set screws

Absolutely agreed. Set screws are only meant to be used 2 to 4 times and I find many people tighten them way way too much.

[953 nut 55,215]

The set screws on your hubs should be tightened to 30 ft/lb and then the lock nut should also be tightened to 25 ft/lb.

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

2 hours ago, 953 nut said:

The set screws on your hubs should be tightened to 30 ft/lb and then the lock nut should also be tightened to 25 ft/lb.

 

Get a proper 8 point socket for this, you won't get it with a combo wrench.

[stevasaurus 22,732]

That roll pin was supposed to be removed before dropping the trans, thus making it easy.  Use a roll pin pinch to tap out the roll pin and also use the punch to replace the pin.  Do not put a bolt in there, use the roll pin that comes out.  It will tap out easily and is fine to reuse.  

[Horse Newbie 7,069]

24 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

Do not put a bolt in there, use the roll pin that comes out

I agree… a proper roll pin will exert pressure on the shifter handle and the shifter shaft, probably keeping the connection tighter. A bolt and nut will not exert this pressure and will not be as good.

[953 nut 55,215]

8 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

Get a proper 8 point socket for this, you won't get it with a combo wrench.

If you don't have an 8 point socket that isn't a problem.

@roadapples  came up with a rather clever way of getting the torque wrench to fit the 3/8" square head setscrew. Use a 3/8 drive 3/8" Allen Wrench and a 3/8" socket that will fit your torque wrench. Place the square drive end of the allen wrench over the square head of the set screw then place the 3/8 socket over the allen hex and you  are ready to torque the set screw.

We miss you Jay.

[GAJoe 844]

On 11/21/2022 at 9:12 PM, ebinmaine said:

Excellent.  

Glad to see you tackling this.  

 

Your next challenge will be to remove the hubs. 

Please do NOT use a 3 jaw puller. 

There are home shop made pullers that work well. Access to a press is even better.   

 

On that roll pin...

They really need to be driven out with a real roll pin punch if possible.  

I don't see a problem using a bolt to hold it once in the tractor but I'd use grade 8 instead of stainless. 

 

All the bearings, seals and gaskets are available from Lowell at Wheelhorse Parts and More along with other sources. 

On reassembly use a gasket between the case halves, installed dry.  

 

Fire away with questions...

 

I had the correct size roll pin punch and got it out no problem. And thanks for the heads up on removing the hubs. I was already planning on borrowing one from a guy at work. But because I hoard steel that is unique I have some heavy T-bar that will be perfect for the job. It was part of a very old boiler that was replaced. This will use the last of it. I'll keep this around to loan out and hopefully never need again.  

My good friend was impressed with Wheel Horse when he saw the videos that 953 Nut sent of the rebuild after seeing how more beefed up than needed it is. It's amazing how almost all manufacturers over engineered products back then to last a lifetime. And now they strive to barely get products out of warranty after repeat customer.

[GAJoe 844]

13 hours ago, Horse Newbie said:

I will add… when you reinstall the hubs, use anti-seize on the axle where the hub meets the axle. This should make for easy removal if you ever have to remove the hubs again.

I would also use new set screws with new lock nuts. You can order them from McMaster-Carr.

 

13 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Absolutely agreed. Set screws are only meant to be used 2 to 4 times and I find many people tighten them way way too much.

 

13 hours ago, 953 nut said:

The set screws on your hubs should be tightened to 30 ft/lb and then the lock nut should also be tightened to 25 ft/lb.

I don't know if it was the purchaser or his son-in-law but he obviously didn't ask for help here. You can tell which side he worked on. An example of how not to do it. He must have lost the set screw.

Edited November 23, 2022 by GAJoe

[GAJoe 844]

I almost didn't tackle this job for lack of clear instruction in that B&W manual. You guys are supplementing wonderfully. Please keep it up. Above is perfect for me; a comment and then two or three clarifications to make sure I understand. You guys are mind readers. Thanks; you're building my knowledge and confidence.

[Horse Newbie 7,069]

@GAJoe I know you aren’t there yet , but when you get to replacing the seals around the input and brake shaft, one of them worked better by flipping it around to install… when I did mine on the 8 speed on my Work Horse GT-1600 the metal on the seal would catch on the housing and booger up the seal. After 2 failed attempts someone on here suggested flipping it around. When you order  those seals get a few extra…

Edited November 23, 2022 by Horse Newbie

[ebinmaine 67,464]

5 hours ago, Horse Newbie said:

When you order  those seals get a few extra…

Excellent idea. 

If/when you damage a seal don't sweat it.  

I've done it more times than I would rather admit.  

 

We have enough of a Herd here that I keep our own little Parts Department.  

I order seals in bulk. Literally. 

6 to 10 at a time. Pricing is far better and I know I'll have what I need when I screw up.  😂

 

 

6 hours ago, GAJoe said:

confidence

There's nothing you can't do on these. Just a matter of time and tools.  

 

 

7 hours ago, GAJoe said:

My good friend was impressed with Wheel Horse when he saw the videos that 953 Nut sent of the rebuild after seeing how more beefed up than needed it is. It's amazing how almost all manufacturers over engineered products back then to last a lifetime

 

You'll think that even more when you start using the tractor.   

 

[GAJoe 844]

OK, I have watched the videos and feel like I can do this. BUT I'm trying to decide how much of this that I actually need to do. I have checked and there is no movement indicating wear on the input shaft bearing, the brake shaft bearing, or the right outboard shaft needle bearing. There was a small amount of oil below those openings that had caused dirt to accumulate over the years but it didn't look like much at all. The input seal is damaged from the raised lip on the input pully that I showed in the picture. That set screw wasn't loose and the pulley was flush with the end of the shaft. I need to take that lip off to prevent damage to another seal. Do the break shaft seal and input shaft seal have to be pushed out from the inside by pressing out the bearings? I may find more needs replacing when I get it opened but so far the left outboard shaft needle bearing and the seals  is all that appear to need replacement. I'll know more when I get it opened up.

[ebinmaine 67,464]

 

 

At minimum... 

Determine the reason for that pulley moving in and out enough to destroy the seal and cause that kind of damage to itself. 

Once you get into the transmission take some good pictures and we can look at it to try to figure out what's going on. 

It's legitimately possible that the pulley is just plain in a little too far. 

 

 

Replace all four seals.

Obviously you'll need a case split gasket.

New shift boot.

 

IMHO because you're already going to be into the transmission I would absolutely replace both wheel bearings at the outside.

Carefully check the large carrier bearings on the inside but they're likely okay.

 

All four seals can be replaced from the outside.

No need to remove the bearings for the brake shaft or input shaft seals.

[953 nut 55,215]

52 minutes ago, GAJoe said:

Do the break shaft seal and input shaft seal have to be pushed out from the inside by pressing out the bearings?

The seals are easy to remove from the outside. Use an awl to start a small hole in the metal jacket of the seal, run a sheet metal screw into the hole then use pliers to pull the seal out. If this won't work on that input seal the awl can be driven in-between the lip of the seal and the axle housing then twisted slightly away from the axle to get it moving.

When the time comes to install the new seals be sure to file down any rough spots on the shaft. Use electrical tape over the end of the shaft to cover the keyway. I have a few pieces of PVC that fit snugly over the shafts to drive the seals into place squarely. As mentioned previously a bit of never-seize on the shaft when replacing the hubs and pullies is a good thing.

[ebinmaine 67,464]

26 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Use electrical tape over the end of the shaft to cover the keyway

Just as another option there. I haven't had much luck using electrical tape.

What little I have around here is too thick for the seal to ride over it.  

 

I've done better with either packing tape or good quality Scotch (office) tape.

[rick 233]

Parts bag plastic works for me

 

[ebinmaine 67,464]

16 minutes ago, rick said:

Parts bag plastic works for me

 

Now that's a neat idea!

[ebinmaine 67,464]

6 hours ago, GAJoe said:

watched the videos and feel like I can do this

 

I meant to post this earlier. I have an 8-speed under the bench that I need to get into and go through in a similar manner to yours.

 

To break open the case, I use a wood chisel that's sharpened right up nicely and tap the gasket all the way around the outside. Usually a couple times around and it'll start separating and lifting the case.

Do NOT lift one side very much further than the other because the shafts ride in both halves of the case.

 

Knowing I need to get this done anyways it's no trouble at all to make a video showing you exactly what I mean..

Lemme know if it would help.