Help needed with auger shaft removal

[Panther416-8 341]

Hi guys. Ran into a problem last night with my 2 stage 79361 snowblower.  I had to chase the threads on the end of each auger shaft where the bolt and washer attach and butt up against the bushing. One side worked fine but then I was hurrying too much on the other side and snapped the tap off. I spent hours trying to remove with a small pair of needle nose pliers in the tap flutes, trying to tap the edge of the broken tap with a screw driver in a counter clockwise fashion and nothing budged it. I want to take the shaft by itself over to a friend who can work on it for me but looking at the schematic I'm not sure how it is retained in the gearbox. Do I I just pull it out of the gearbox or do I need to unbolt the gearbox to remove it?

[oliver2-44 9,714]

Wish you good luck with the tap removal and repair!

[Panther416-8 341]

1 hour ago, oliver2-44 said:

Wish you good luck with the tap removal and repair!

Thanks oliver, I'm gonna need it

[Panther416-8 341]

Here's where I'm at with the disassembly.  If anyone knows how I remove this auger shaft from the gearbox I would appreciate it. If the gearbox halves are separated by removing the bolts what do I need to do to release the one auger shaft?

Thanks

[ri702bill 8,296]

You MAY not need to disassemble the gearbox; rather, remove it as an assembly ....??

The reason I responded is in the past, I too have broken taps off and had them "burnt" out with an electrical spark discharge device known as a Disentigrator - it would burn thru the center, leaving the flutes in the shaft. Then they can be coaxed out one at a time. Chase the thread with a NEW tap, by hand - no cordless drill - to be able to "feel" the progress.

Been there, done that...

Bill

[Panther416-8 341]

26 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

You MAY not need to disassemble the gearbox; rather, remove it as an assembly ....??

The reason I responded is in the past, I too have broken taps off and had them "burnt" out with an electrical spark discharge device known as a Disentigrator - it would burn thru the center, leaving the flutes in the shaft. Then they can be coaxed out one at a time. Chase the thread with a NEW tap, by hand - no cordless drill - to be able to "feel" the progress.

Been there, done that...

Bill

Thanks for the advice Bill. I'm not sure of anyone local to me offering EDM service. I'm am trying to get the axle shaft out so that my welder friend can try to work on it easier. As far as removing as a whole assembly (auger gear box with both auger shafts connected and the rear shaft that goes back to the impeller) will loosening the two set screws on the impeller allow the shaft to pull forward out of the impeller? I loosened them but the shaft doesn't pull out of the impeller possibly due to a rust weld over the years. It looks from the schematic that it just slides in there with a key on the shaft and the two set screws holding in place but not sure if that's the case or it goes all the way through the back of the blower to the sprocket and chain.

[wallfish 16,988]

I believe the cross shaft that the augers attach to is one long shaft, not 2 separate shafts

The other shaft with the worm gear can be removed first, then that long shaft.

Personally, I would skip using those Toro bushings on the auger shaft ends and replace them with a real 4 bolt flange bearing. The bearing has set screws to hold the shaft, you get a better bearing instead of a $20 bushing and you don't need to worry about the threaded hole. No need for complete dis assembly either

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Bearings/Cast-Iron-4-Bolt-Flange-Mount-Bearings/3-4-4-Bolt-Flange-Bearing-UCF204-12-1-204-12-4.axd

(think that shaft is 3/4 but don't remember)

Do not use a bearing with a lock collar, there will not be enough room for the collar to fit.

You will need to drill new mount holes in the side plates

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by wallfish

[wallfish 16,988]

The shaft that goes through the impeller also has the sprocket on the back attached to it and there's a bearing behind the sprocket too. If you remove the sprocket , the shaft with the impeller will come out the front with the impeller. Now you can beat on that thing to get it off the shaft

[lynnmor 7,302]

49 minutes ago, Panther416-8 said:

 I'm not sure of anyone local to me offering EDM service.

 

There are numerous tool & die shops in north east Pennsylvania, many will have EDM services but some may not accept this type of work.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&tbs=lf:1,lf_ui:2&tbm=lcl&sxsrf=ALiCzsZKTJhRpPwCQRO_dQvdrTlSPFhcHg:1668637872185&q=tool+and+die+shops+in+pennsylvania&rflfq=1&num=10&ved=2ahUKEwj2gIW94LP7AhVMGFkFHRhXDpIQtgN6BAhBEAY#rlfi=hd:;si:,41.797692875306204,-75.53913766250002;mv:[[42.246577436911494,-73.33637887343752],[40.23106640321274,-78.53291207656252],null,[41.24659255592228,-75.93464547500002],8]

[Panther416-8 341]

49 minutes ago, wallfish said:

I believe the cross shaft that the augers attach to is one long shaft, not 2 separate shafts

The other shaft with the worm gear can be removed first, then that long shaft.

Personally, I would skip using those Toro bushings on the auger shaft ends and replace them with a real 4 bolt flange bearing. The bearing has set screws to hold the shaft, you get a better bearing instead of a $20 bushing and you don't need to worry about the threaded hole. No need for complete dis assembly either

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Bearings/Cast-Iron-4-Bolt-Flange-Mount-Bearings/3-4-4-Bolt-Flange-Bearing-UCF204-12-1-204-12-4.axd

(think that shaft is 3/4 but don't remember)

Do not use a bearing with a lock collar, there will not be enough room for the collar to fit.

You will need to drill new mount holes in the side plates

 

Thanks wallfish.  I think I'm going to go the route of the flange bearings you suggest. The shaft measures 1" in diameter and the part number UCF205-16 looks to be an almost perfect fit. The width between the side panels and auger seem to match up and the 4 bolt holes center to center seem to be exactly the same as the existing holes in the side plates only slightly larger.

[ri702bill 8,296]

14 hours ago, wallfish said:

Do not use a bearing with a lock collar

I stopped using that style years ago. Their claim to fame was that they did not mar the shaft, rather they gripped it once the eccentric external collar was rotated and  locked. There were 2 problems with them - the collar could be rotated and locked in either direction - you had to lock in the direction of rotation, If the shaft reversed direction, it would loosen the lock collar. They did not tolerate vibration - that would loosen them too. For a couple of bucks more, we used a version that had split fingers and a retained full circle locking collar - addressed all the issues I mentioned.

Bill

Edited November 17, 2022 by ri702bill

[peter lena 8,589]

@wallfish  love those bearings , double opportunity , flange basing mount , plus wide side grease shields , personal experience , clean out / re grease  that bearing , 560 deg  lucas grease ,  make it fail safe , once you  use that set up in a chronic  trouble spot , you quickly think of doing it  to all your  bearings ,  mule drive , mower deck  , pto  drive bearings ,  pete

[Panther416-8 341]

5 hours ago, ri702bill said:

I stopped using that style years ago. Their claim to fame was that they did not mar the shaft, rather they gripped it once the eccentric external collar was rotated and  locked. There were 2 problems with them - the collar could be rotated and locked in either direction - you had to lock in the direction of rotation, If the shaft reversed direction, it would loosen the lock collar. They did not tolerate vibration - that would loosen them too. For a couple of bucks more, we used a version that had split fingers and a retained full circle locking collar - addressed all the issues I mentioned.

Bill

@wallfish @ri702bill just to confirm this type wth the 2 set screws is ok? This is not the same as a locking collar which you state to not use?

[ri702bill 8,296]

Those are OK to use - BUT, the setscrews will raise a burr on the shaft when you tighten them. I go the extra step and gently tighten one screw, remove the other, and using the tap drill for that thread, go in thru the threads and drill the shaft just enough to get a full drill point depression. Install the setscrew - the raised burr will be below the shaft surface, Do the same to the other...

 

The brand we used was from Sealmaster - McMaster Carr has something similar for a non-marring floating bearing. Both have the split fingers that have the raised ends that do not allow the loose clamp collar to fall off...

Bill

Edited November 17, 2022 by ri702bill

[Panther416-8 341]

1 hour ago, ri702bill said:

gently tighten one screw, remove the other, and using the tap drill for that thread, go in thru the threads and drill the shaft just enough to get a full drill point depression. Install the setscrew - the raised burr will be below the shaft surface, Do the same to the other...

Thanks Bill, that's a great idea. Thanks for sharing.

Matt

[ri702bill 8,296]

I do the same with the axle hub screws - had one loosen and start to walk inward towards the Unidrive - could not see it until spring when I removed the wheel weight - dimpled the shaft - no more issues....