K-301 "loading up" intermittently, has the 'sniffles'

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

Looking for some ideas...  hope someone can validate what I think is going on.

 

Carb is rebuilt, twice.  Fuel pump is rebuilt, working fine.

 

Engine starts easily and runs fine... UNTIL ... it coughs and sneezes, almost stalls, spews some gasoline snot out the carb, governor opens wide, engine catches again and runs fine for some more time, typically a couple minutes and the cycle repeats.

 

When I pulled the fuel pump there was a lot of crap inside and some was holding a check valve open... I thought "AHA, that's it!" ... ummm, no, that was not it. But it was a problem.

 

Here's what I've noticed observing the issue:

 

This hole in the carb is, I believe, an 'overflow' for the bowl.  It leads right in there so I presume it's either that, or a way to keep the bowl at atmospheric pressure... or BOTH.

 

 

Just before the engine coughs and sneezes, I see liquid fuel filling this hole, even a few drips coming out.  As soon as it sneezes, the hole is clear of liquid again and the engine resumes running normally.

 

I have the float level set to spec, a second brand new float valve is installed.  The float floats fine and there is no liquid inside the float.

 

I  THINK  what is happening is that the engine is bobbing around and the float is bouncing and letting too much fuel into the bowl... shutting off the fuel, but 'bouncing' the needle valve.

 

I'm going to adjust the float about a quarter inch lower.  Should still get enough fuel I'm sure.

 

Does this sound plausible?  Possible?  Probable?

 

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Jeff-C175

[gt14rider 843]

A-1 miller performance has a spring for the float 

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

44 minutes ago, gt14rider said:

A-1 miller performance has a spring for the float 

 

 

Thank you Sir!  That EXACTLY describes the issue I'm having with this, actually 2 of these, engines!

 

I'm going to try adjusting the float a little lower first, if that doesn't help, I guess I'll spring for the spring.

 

 

[Heatingman 971]

Does this only happen when driving over rough terrain?  Or does it also happen while sitting/driving level?

 

 

[Rick3478 434]

You didn't say what tractor model this is on, but I think the wobble plate engine mounts on some of the C series can cause this or make it worse.  My 300's do it once in awhile on bumpy ground.

[ebinmaine 70,771]

6 hours ago, gt14rider said:

A-1 miller performance  

Is a vendor to AVOID. 

 

There has been numerous mentions of negative interactions here on the site and that Miller has a "reputation" along with a criminal record.   

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

3 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

vendor to AVOID. 

 

Yeah, I've heard that.

 

7 hours ago, Rick3478 said:

didn't say what tractor

7 hours ago, Heatingman said:

sitting level?

 

 

No, because it's not on a tractor.  It's on a generator, on a shaker plate.

[pacer 3,175]

The "splash guard??" bowl gasket hasnt been mentioned - not sure thats proper name, but it is critical in keeping this from happening. I had one doing it and found the gasket was so .... 'wrinkled?' that it allowed splash to happen. Changed that gasket to an 'ironed'  (flat) one fixed it.

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

50 minutes ago, pacer said:

splash guard

 

It's in there, and flat.

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

Do not all floats have the tab to adjust the 'drop' ?  There is no such tab on this float, thought it may have been broken off, but there is no evidence it ever existed.

 

 

 

[pfrederi 18,334]

Never seen a afloat with out the tab.. could explain your problem  float level would have been my first check with this issue...

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

8 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

with out the tab.. could explain your problem

 

There IS a tab to adjust the UPPER... the tab that seems to be non-existent is the one that the instruction calls for the DROP, or the LOWER limit.

 

[Snoopy11 5,717]

Let me provide something. Jeff, this is a k-301 carb float... that has both tabs...

 

I do know that some stens floats do not come with both tabs... some do not come with either!!!

 

I have a place here in Indiana where I can pick up the correct float like the one above, if need be. 

 

Don

[pfrederi 18,334]

just looked a at 2 #30 carbs on my bench neither one has the lower level drop tab

Edited November 3, 2022 by pfrederi

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

8 hours ago, pfrederi said:

carbs on my bench

 

Same as the ones in these #26 carbs!

 

I guess some do, and some don't.

 

Setting the float lower did not fix the problem. Putting C-clamps on the Shaker plate to limit the vibration did fix the problem! I'm going to have to replace those rubber mounts.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Jeff-C175

[ebinmaine 70,771]

Just now, Jeff-C175 said:

replace those rubber mounts

With solid spacers 

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

9 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

With solid spacers 

 

Perhaps.  With the c-clamps holding the plate it didn't seem to want to walk around the driveway so they may not be needed at all.

 

McMaster does have them though.  I replaced them on the other generator already.  Not very $$

 

I may just leave them in place and weld the shaker plate to the frame with some steel angle.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Jeff-C175

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

Took off the rubbers, the metal ends with the bolt studs fell out of the rubber.

 

Drilled through the rubber, put bolt through and torqued 'em down tight.

 

No more hippy hippy shake...

 

 

[ebinmaine 70,771]

20 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Took off the rubbers, the metal ends with the bolt studs fell out of the rubber.

 

Drilled through the rubber, put bolt through and torqued 'em down tight.

 

No more hippy hippy shake

Is this the same shaker plate base Wheelhorse used? 

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

Is this the same shaker plate base Wheelhorse used? 

 

No.  Same principle though.  The plate is much larger, both the engine and generator sit on it, and the plate rides on the rubbers which bolt to the wheeled frame.

 

 

[Rick3478 434]

Maybe coloring a bit outside the lines but ... convert to propane?

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

1 hour ago, Rick3478 said:

convert to propane?

 

Yeah!  That would work... can't 'spill' a gas!

 

But... then... HOW do I do that?  Special carburetor?  Wonder if anyone makes one for a K series?  I've seen what appears to be propane stuff for the K series in the carburetor manuals.

 

 

[Rick3478 434]

1 hour ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

Yeah!  That would work... can't 'spill' a gas!

 

But... then... HOW do I do that?  Special carburetor?  Wonder if anyone makes one for a K series?  I've seen what appears to be propane stuff for the K series in the carburetor manuals.

 

 

Yeah, mixer and regulator, probably safety shutoff, I've never done one.  Kohler used to have kits, don't know if still available.  There are third party kits, uscarb.com comes up on Google, don't know what their quality is like.  Probably others.  And IIRC the propane motors had higher compression heads, so you might lose a bit of power.  Not in my wheelhouse, I'm just sort of aware peripherally, maybe others on here are more expert.

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

18 minutes ago, Rick3478 said:

Kohler used to have kits, don't know if still available

 

This is what USCARBS says works on the K301.  Tri-fuel too!  $187.00

Interesting!  Might be neat to try on a tractor.

 

https://motorsnorkel.com/product/conversion-kits/k9522-tri-fuel-adapter-style-conversion-kit-natural-gas-propane-and-gasoline/

 

 

[ebinmaine 70,771]

1 hour ago, Rick3478 said:

so you might lose a bit of power.  Not in my wheelhouse, I'm just sort of aware peripherally

Same here.  

 

My understanding is....

 

Propane/NG as a fuel has less energy than gasoline, which is what causes the power loss. 

The increase in compression is specific to propane/NG engines. Not tri-fuel. Propane/NG has a different burn rate than gasoline and can tolerate the higher compression.   

Increasing the compression in a propane/NG engine compensates for some of the loss of power caused by the lower energy output of propane/NG vs gasoline fuel.  

 

 

50 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Might be neat to try on a tractor

 

I've processed the thought in  discussions with @Jrain and @Handy Don. 

 

I think I would be a VERY interesting conversion and workable Horse.