KT17 Main Drive Pulley Removal

[Alex175 784]

I am currently working on swapping motors in my C-175. I had my KT17 Series 1 let go on me over the winter last year, and have since found a KT17 Series 2 out of a 417-8 to replace it with.  I have noticed a few minor differences, nothing that seems too crazy, different mounting plate (solid instead of vibration plate) but the frame is the same so it will bolt up fine.  Engine is in and fits nicely, however when I went to put on the main drive belt I noticed that the existing belt suddenly appeared way too long.  After a brief look over it the main drive pulley on the crankshaft is substantially smaller.  I am assuming that the pulley is smaller since it is off of an 8-speed, where as my C-175 is a hydrostatic. I got the clutch housing off fine, as well as the clutch plate, but the race and the drive pulley seem pretty happy where they are and don't want to move.  I didn't see any set screws but  maybe I am missing them?  From looking at the diagram it looks like possibly on the 417-8 that they may have been down in the pulley groove?  I don't want to go putting on a bearing/pulley puller until I am sure there's nothing holding those pieces in place.  Any help or information is appreciated.

 

Additionally an electrical conundrum, the 417-8 had a 3 wire connector to the motor, does anyone know of an actual name for the style of connector, the C-175 had a two wire originally.  The reason for the 3rd leg on the 417 is for the oil pressure switch, which I may add an LED light to my dash to take advantage of the switch on the motor.  I'd like to try and find the original style 3 wire connector but haven't seen anything like it after googling wire connectors for an hour.

 

The pulley and race in question that seem happily at home where they are, but need to be evicted.

 

Old Motor Out

 

 

And new motor in.

[Snoopy11 5,717]

20 minutes ago, Alex175 said:

when I went to put on the main drive belt I noticed that the existing belt suddenly appeared way too long

Have you considered buying a smaller belt?

 

I do not think that cogged v-belt isn't correct for your machine anyway...

 

Don

[Moparfanforever 874]

There is a pulley size difference between 8sp and hydro tractor. There should be a set screw in line with the crank key. 

 

I can't remember if there more than one.

 

Can't help with the elec. Plug, but someone will come along that can. 

[Alex175 784]

14 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

Have you considered buying a smaller belt?

 

I do not think that cogged v-belt isn't correct for your machine anyway...

 

It's definitely not the right style of belt, and I will be replacing it, however I believe I would still need to change the pulley, otherwise it will throw off the ratios and might not deliver the right power output to my transmission.

[Moparfanforever 874]

Wish I could remember which is which, but 7473 and 7478 is one of the belts you need. One is for 8sp tractor and the other a hydro tractor. 

[Snoopy11 5,717]

3 minutes ago, Alex175 said:

 

It's definitely not the right style of belt, and I will be replacing it, however I believe I would still need to change the pulley, otherwise it will throw off the ratios and might not deliver the right power output to my transmission.

Absolutely,

 

Do you have a harmonic balancer puller? I personally have had good luck with a plain old 3 jaw puller, but you risk destroying the pulley. Best to go with a HB puller...

 

 

Oh, and nice job on the repower! If it is okay with you, I would like to add your machine to our Repower thread!!!

 

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,717]

I think the 7473 belt is used on 8 speed machines... 5/8" x 82" @Moparfanforever

 

Precisely what my 416-8 uses...

 

Don

 

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Snoopy11

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,360]

There are 2 set screws on the pulley . One on the Key way and the second about 90 degrees from the first > hopefully your is not brown welded (rust ) to the shaft . I have been fight a pulley on an 8 hp for a couple of weeks. Pulley laughs every time I work on it.

[Snoopy11 5,717]

4 minutes ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

Pulley laughs every time I work on it.

And it never seems to blush when you cuss at it...

 

Been there... MANY times...

 

Don

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,246]

Click on the picture and again on the next page. There is one there from a Kohler manual.

 

[Alex175 784]

@gwest_ca You're the best, that's just what I needed.  Thanks Garry! 

 

It is M11 and M12 for sure. 

 

Of course now begs the question, do I spend $10-$15 on each connector for the Kohler original part, or buy an entire kit of aftermarket connectors with 362 pieces for 1,2,3, and 4 wire connectors for $14

Anyone use this style automotive connectors on their tractors before?

 

[squonk 42,570]

That belt is fine as long as it's the correct width and length. I prefer those belts on critical equipment. They flex better and run cooler. We had ICU isolation room fans that from day one would go through belts fast. They had spring loaded tensioners and once I installed cogged belts the problems went away

Edited November 2, 2022 by squonk

[daveoman1966 3,808]

Here is the correct way for 'Engine Pulley Removal'.  Any other way will likely damage the pulley, or crankshaft.  Don't use any sort of 3-jaw puller either. (In this example / video, the Bearing Race was brown-welded to the crankshaft video.)   Rent this tool from AutoZone.   

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by daveoman1966

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

17 minutes ago, daveoman1966 said:

correct way

 

Dave I see you're working with @Pullstart approved safety footwear!  

[daveoman1966 3,808]

1 hour ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

Dave I see you're working with @Pullstart approved safety footwear!  

...Yeah, but I shudda had sock on cuz these was my good pair...now they're kinda smelly.  

[ebinmaine 70,779]

1 hour ago, daveoman1966 said:

correct way

@elcamino/wheelhorse

Jim you set up like this?

 

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,360]

1 minute ago, ebinmaine said:

@elcamino/wheelhorse

Jim you set up like this?

 

Exactly like that . I think the tractor spent a long time out side. I have a scope for inspecting inside of walls etc . Has a light on the end with a camera . Looked inside holes where set screws located to see if I missed a screw both holes empty just rusty as all get out. Then looked in side the bearing sleeve looked I was in a cave with stuff growing from ceiling , sides and floor. Tomorrow will be more fun. 

[ebinmaine 70,779]

1 minute ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

Exactly like that . I think the tractor spent a long time out side. I have a scope for inspecting inside of walls etc . Has a light on the end with a camera . Looked inside holes where set screws located to see if I missed a screw both holes empty just rusty as all get out. Then looked in side the bearing sleeve looked I was in a cave with stuff growing from ceiling , sides and floor. Tomorrow will be more fun. 

Oye!!! 

[8ntruck 7,389]

Check your local NAPA store (if you have a local one) for the connector, as they carry Packard style connectors.

[Alex175 784]

Got lucky I guess, used a 3 jaw puller before I saw the comments to avoid them.  After finding the set screws and getting them clear I was able to slowly and carefully get the pulleys off of both motors safely.

 

Just a little different in size...

 

 

Started test assembling after some cleaning and it's looking good, the belt is rubbing in a few spots, such as on the top guard, which I think may be due to the fact that it looks like it is a 1/2 inch belt when it should be a 5/8ths or it could just be worn down, so it might be sitting too low in the pulleys.  Either that or the belt might be just slightly too long and the tensioner is pushing it too low because of that.  Going to get a new belt and see how it fits before I play around with it too much.

 

 

On another side note, when I go to put the clutch disk and clutch housing back on, is it a good idea to clean up both surfaces as they are glazed over and dirty, or is that a big no no?  If they can be cleaned, what is the proper method?

[Snoopy11 5,717]

11 hours ago, Alex175 said:

Got lucky I guess, used a 3 jaw puller before I saw the comments to avoid them.  After finding the set screws and getting them clear I was able to slowly and carefully get the pulleys off of both motors safely.

No, you didn't get lucky. I have experimented myself with both style pullers... nobody ever believes me when I say that a 3 jaw puller works perfectly well for these thicker style pulleys...

 

I bought a harmonic balancer puller, but when I removed the pulley off my K341 (same pulley in your pictures) I tried FIRST using a 3 jaw. Worked like a charm... thus why I even mentioned it in your thread.

 

Anyway, glad you got the pulley off, I'll likely reference your post in the future when I talk about using a 3 jaw puller on this type of pulley...

 

Not everyone has $70+ to shell out to rent a HB puller... and if another tool that I have tested can get the job done successfully in certain instances... then the Beagle's mission is accomplished....

 

EDIT: not saying that a 3 jaw puller is the 'preferred' method... just saying that it works ......duh.....

 

Don

Edited November 3, 2022 by Snoopy11
DUH moment...

[Thor27 832]

I believe your going to need a 7473 belt, yours is rubbing on itself at the tensioner and will make the idler bounce and kick the belt.  The difference is height from using the 417/418 mounting plate instead of the shaker with spacers.    

 

Does your belt guard fit right at the front?   I may be miss-remembering this but think I may have had to use one from a 3/400 series. 

 

You were lucky with the pulley. I broke the first two I touched with a jaw style puller, now I only use the balancer style, it helps on a rusty stuck one if you pull the sleeve first with a bearing separator. Learned that here (eb I think?)

[ebinmaine 70,779]

3 hours ago, Thor27 said:

pull the sleeve first with a bearing separator. Learned that here (eb I think?)

I might have been the cause of the info but not the teacher. I went through a bit of a challenge removing the sleeve and pulley from the K341 engine on Cinnamon Horse C160.  

 

 

[Thor27 832]

Here is a visual. The painted guard is from my 418, the rusty one is from a c175. 

[Thor27 832]

On 11/3/2022 at 9:22 AM, Snoopy11 said:

 

Not everyone has $70+ to shell out to rent a HB puller...

 

$70 to rent?  how about $16 to buy?   When is the last time you priced a replacement engine pulley?