check valve ?

[RED-Z06 2,221]

Its interesting yall have this problem, even running bone dry on a rear tank model its not anything spectacular to refire.

[pfrederi 17,741]

KT 17s with the pump mounted on the top of the engine and the tank under the seat crank forever if they have sat for an extended period. That is why all my twins have electric pumps now.

[peter lena 8,637]

@Ed Kennell agree with you on the fuel  tank  level , always keep mine full after use , always add a few ounces of STA BIL to my fuel , once I  find a reliable cure to horse  problems , I  enhance that and keep doing it . just amazing to me , to listen to how many will not  take advantage of a failure and eliminate it . recently sold a deck , to a guy , and was showing him a few changes , that I  had , made to related horse issues . he was , shocked at the simplicity / efficiently  of the change, just the way I  see things , just talkin , pete 

[John c 79]

Hey guys, checking back in to report my 314 is all squared away now, here's the after-action report...

 

I installed a primer bulb, replaced all the fuel line, the filter, the tank grommet, took the fuel pump off broke it down inspected the diaphragm and check valves, the diaphragm was still soft, supple and flexible, the output side check valve was leaking by a little bit, even after I'd cleaned it a couple of times, but since the new primer bulb has a check in it, I decide it was clean enough.

 

I figured while I had him in shop and was already on a roll, I went ahead and did a complete service

 

I changed the oil, took the carb off shot it through with lots of carb spray and compressed air, put in a fresh air filter and spark plug, shot all the zerks full of the lucus green grease. And since the OE seat pan had just popped another nut loose, I replaced the seat too.

 

So far the long crank time issue appears to be cleared up, I did the fuel system first so it's had a couple of overnight periods where I could check it from a stone cold first start and it's much improved, it's back in the shed now I'll crank it in week or 2 and see how it responds.

 

I can say this thanksgiving break was not boring in the least

 

Thanks everybody for the replies and tips.    

[ebinmaine 67,657]

1 hour ago, John c said:

So far the long crank time issue appears to be cleared up, I did the fuel system first so it's had a couple of overnight periods where I could check it from a stone cold first start and it's much improved, it's back in the shed now I'll crank it in week or 2 and see how it responds

Excellent. 

 

When you start it next time just give that primer bulb about 2½ gentle squeezes. If it firms up when you do that don't force it. The carb is full and the float is holding back like it should. 

 

We have a primer bulb on Wally Digger the backhoe tractor. That's a 86 416-8 Kohler single.

I haven't touched it for a month or so until this morning. Started right up using the primer.  

 

 

[Ed Kennell 38,230]

2 hours ago, John c said:

 

 

I installed a primer bulb,

 

    We both thank you.

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

On 10/30/2022 at 10:18 AM, oliver2-44 said:

pumps have 2 little small disc check valves with tiny springs under a plate that is screwed on inside.

 

I know they exist, but perhaps only older pumps?

 

All mine have pressed in check valves and no screw.  All early 80s vintage.

 

 

[oliver2-44 9,761]

8 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

I know they exist, but perhaps only older pumps?

 

All mine have pressed in check valves and no screw.  All early 80s vintage.

 

 

Mine are 60’s and 70’s vintage that have the screwed in plate. 

[Jayzauto 89]

I use the small check valves, inline.  I only have C/3/4/5 Series, but I replace the complete fuel line, new clamps and install the check valve under the shifter plate.  It will keep the majority of the line full and ready to start.

 

https://www.amazon.com/EVIL-ENERGY-Return-Petrol-Aluminium/dp/B07ZB42CGT/ref=sr_1_3?crid=QIOTDY4NHZ5F&keywords=fuel%2Bline%2Bcheck%2Bvalves&qid=1669656438&sprefix=fuel%2Bline%2Bcheck%2Bvalves%2Caps%2C86&sr=8-3&th=1

 

 

This seems to have cured the long crank times.   Not that the primer bulbs and electric fuel pumps Don't work, But I'm a purist and prefer something less obtrusive.

 

YMMV

 

GLuck, Jay

[squonk 41,158]

I 've tried 3 inline check valves. All junk.

[Lagersolut 661]

I have a different method for starting one sitting awhile - just take the air cleaner off 1 or 2 small shots of carb cleaner - choke - crank -  they always take right off .  I like Valvoline .

 

 

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

7 minutes ago, Lagersolut said:

different method

 

How nice would it be if you didn't have to do that though?

 

 

[Lagersolut 661]

51 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

How nice would it be if you didn't have to do that though?

 

 

 

It would - I have a new electric fuel pump in my parts box - first fuel pump to go out wins it but I won't change things up until something goes out .

 

[peter lena 8,637]

@Johnc     have this set up on my 3 magnums , especially note last picture of vertical fuel hold to carb  that check valve works in a  VERTICAL POSITION , as the valve marking suggests. fuel held to fuel pump , and to carb inlet , does that make sense? you can measure and pre make up  that fuel line and check valve , thats what I  did , was a quick simple leak free , fuel hold to my starting . anything I  suggest  , is in use , regularly on my stuff , they consistently , quick / easy   start , pete

 

[RED-Z06 2,221]

I guess what im failing to grasp, with these problems yall are having...the bowls should hold fuel for a couple months, even if the fuel line were pinched off before cranking, the engine should kick off and run on whats in the bowl...and a normal mech or pulse fuel pump should begin filling the bowl within seconds.  It just doesn't make any sense yall are having extended crank times if the bowls aren't leaking dry.

 

You shouldn't need check valves or anything, and beyond 2 or so months you start to get the beginning stages of fuel breakdown in the bowl..so you can expect a few extra cranks by that time possibly.

[lynnmor 7,308]

19 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

I guess what im failing to grasp, with these problems yall are having...the bowls should hold fuel for a couple months

 

They don't.

[Snoopy11 5,714]

On 10/30/2022 at 9:59 AM, lynnmor said:

Major brands of fuel line

 

Major brands of AUTOMOTIVE fuel line.

 

I would never trust any fleabay or jungle fuel line with ethanol fuels.

 

GO... ...PHYSICALLY GO to an automotive parts store and buy the correct size fuel line there... they can cut what you need to the length you need. It is pretty cheap as well.

 

Don

Edited November 30, 2022 by Snoopy11
TYPIDO

[peter lena 8,637]

@lynnmor  https://www.bing.com/search?FORM=UP97DF&PC=UP97&q=fuel+line+primer+bulb    a load of them here , might even find a high rated model , pete

[Horse Newbie 7,075]

I don’t mind a few squeezes on a primer bulb for a quick start….

[RED-Z06 2,221]

15 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

 

They don't.

But they should, they are supposed to...mine do, without fail...talking non gravity, tank in back...

[lynnmor 7,308]

Mine never held fuel for very long, not from new and not 31 years later.  That includes a total of six carburetors.

[RED-Z06 2,221]

3 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

Mine never held fuel for very long, not from new and not 31 years later.  That includes a total of six carburetors.

How long do they hold fuel for you?  I can generally guarantee...4 months ill get some action on 2 pulls or 5 or 6 revolutuons without doing anything "extra".  I was surprised by my 416 this year, it sat for months waiting on me to rewire the 9 pin plug...i got it wired up, put in thr battery and choked it..it spun maybe 5 times and was running, the fuel filter was empty and while cranking it filled but the engine was already going 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

 

No one here is going to argue RZ. The guys here have already solved the problem. Move on if you disagree...

 

I have been quietly following along this thread, not getting involved because of your interjections... but I have 2 rear fuel tank machines with completely new fuel systems (fuel line, fuel pump, fuel filter, etc).

 

BOTH have this issue if not started for a couple of weeks.

 

Some of these guys here have been into these tractors for many years... they know these tractors inside and out. Learning from these guys is a privilege that I appreciate.

 

Because of their input, I will be installing primer bulbs.

 

When multiple people report an issue such as this... it shows that this issue is not a machinery failure, it is a common, solvable problem.

 

Don

[lynnmor 7,308]

2 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

How long do they hold fuel for you?  I can generally guarantee...4 months ill get some action on 2 pulls or 5 or 6 revolutuons without doing anything "extra".  I was surprised by my 416 this year, it sat for months waiting on me to rewire the 9 pin plug...i got it wired up, put in thr battery and choked it..it spun maybe 5 times and was running, the fuel filter was empty and while cranking it filled but the engine was already going 

 

I never timed it but it seems like in a month they will be dry.  I'm sure that temperature and winter grade fuel changes things.

[peter lena 8,637]

@lynnmor  never had mine set for that long without  giving it a wake up call, so that was never really never an issue. but since changing over to clear vinyl fuel rated  line and having a vertical check valve  right after fuel pump and carb . its been bombproof  , there is always visible  fuel in the line , and its just consistently working , also have 2 fuel filters in the lines , no debris at all in the carb bowls ,  the experiment continues , pete