Pulleys with lips

[Lman 14]

I needed a new tension pulley, the bearing on the old one was almost totally destroyed. Why do they make these things with lips, so that you can't press out the bearing? Is this cost-effective, does this use less metal? I know I shouldn't complain as I've also seen nylon ones. Not being able to press in a new bearing doubles the price of the part. Economic growth is all well and good, but seriously ...

 

 

[JoeM 7,871]

I have had a bearing and not a pulley and made 6 equally spaced slices in the lips. put the pulley on a piece of pipe that fit into the recessed area and drove out the old bearing. tapped in the new bearing and bent the lip back over the bearing and worked out fine. 

some folks drill out the rivets and split the haves then bolt back together, but the slicing method worked just as good and quicker.

Some old Wheel Horse machines used pulleys on the mule drive with clips and the bearings were replaceable. Old school casted sheaves. 

 

[Achto 27,562]

1 hour ago, JoeM said:

some folks drill out the rivets and split the haves then bolt back together

This is the route that I take. Does not take much time at all.

[Handy Don 12,201]

Looks nice! I like the "flats" ground on the nuts so they fit neatly. So far my idlers like this have tight bearings but when they go, this'll be my route as well.

Pete will be along to remind you about lubing that new bearing, right?!

[Handy Don 12,201]

1 hour ago, JoeM said:

I have had a bearing and not a pulley and made 6 equally spaced slices in the lips. put the pulley on a piece of pipe that fit into the recessed area and drove out the old bearing. tapped in the new bearing and bent the lip back over the bearing and worked out fine. 

some folks drill out the rivets and split the haves then bolt back together, but the slicing method worked just as good and quicker.

Some old Wheel Horse machines used pulleys on the mule drive with clips and the bearings were replaceable. Old school casted sheaves. 

 

So there was enough of the outer race to drive against? Do you have a picture that shows the sliced side before, during, or after that you can share please?

[JoeM 7,871]

1 minute ago, Handy Don said:

Do you have a picture that shows the sliced side before, during, or after that you can share please?

I got one or two that are done, I will check today, I am headed up to the shop this afternoon. 

[peter lena 8,600]

@Lman  great opportunity staring right at you , have a 1"  putty knife ?  those wide rubber grease shields can be easily , carefully removed , to clean out and  re grease  those bearings. personally , remove seals, wipe out original grease , use carb cleaner to thoroughly flush . then use a HI TEMP GREASE  , LIKE LUCAS RED  GREASE TO REPACK  AS ORIGINAL,  at least  500 deg rated or above , to make the bearings last , super quiet . push back seals in place and install . I  also do this to brand new bearings , no noise or failures .  only buy pulleys with wide grease shields on them , so you can convert grease . 3 wheel horses , every pulley and bearing  has the grease upgrade , no noise , whine , or failure , once you do it , and see / feel the  gain , you are hooked , pete   

[Lman 14]

@Achto Mighty fine job! It's interesting to see the evolution through time. Instead of 6 big rivets, 12 smaller ones in the more recent pulleys. I doubt I can get in with an axel grinder. Going to an old Tecumseh dealer tomorrow to pick up the belt, they told me I could have a look at their 2nd hand pulleys, see if there's a similar one, 75 mm OD, 17 mm hole. The OEM part is about €25 where I am. Bearing in the original is a 6203DDU. I believe they are also used in mowing decks, I possibly have some lying around.

[Achto 27,562]

15 minutes ago, Lman said:

Instead of 6 big rivets, 12 smaller ones in the more recent pulleys.

 

 I have used this same method on pulleys that are spot welded together. Drill the spot welds out, separate the haves, bolt them back together. 

[Achto 27,562]

19 minutes ago, Lman said:

I doubt I can get in with an axel grinder.

 

I used a die grinder to flatten out the rivet heads.

[Handy Don 12,201]

13 minutes ago, Achto said:

 

I used a die grinder to flatten out the rivet heads.

Angle grinder too big; Dremel too small; die grinder just right 

[peter lena 8,600]

@Lman  those 6203 bearings are very common to mower deck spindles, # 6203 ( 3/4  )  2 r s c 3, also the same bearing on the  mule drive , also changed the needle bearing grease , and outer bearing grease on the pto lever drive .  virtually eliminated  belt drag issues . lubrication failure is the issue , marine grease is also very good , with a high temp / stress rating . many hours / years now with no noise or failures . good luck , pete  

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

Be careful when ordering 6203 bearings!  They are available in both 17mm and 3/4" ID and not close enough to interchange!

[Lman 14]

   

1 hour ago, peter lena said:

@Lman  those 6203 bearings are very common to mower deck spindles, # 6203 ( 3/4  )  2 r s c 3, also the same bearing on the  mule drive , also changed the needle bearing grease , and outer bearing grease on the pto lever drive .  virtually eliminated  belt drag issues . lubrication failure is the issue , marine grease is also very good , with a high temp / stress rating . many hours / years now with no noise or failures . good luck , pete  

 

Yes, I think I will follow your advice, because this is what can happen to a bearing and pulley if it seizes up. Totally gutted, as you can see. Not sure this was accomplished by friction alone, maybe a stick got dragged against the bearing seal and cracked it. Heat, dust and time did the rest. Mower belts are usually rated to 70° C, I believe, so avoiding drag and greasing bearings when needed is essential. Some people hold a large screwdriver to the ear and the tip pressed against bearings when they are spinning, to listen for issues without having to take everything apart, apparently. 

 

 

[JoeM 7,871]

4 hours ago, Handy Don said:

after that you can share please

Hope this helps.

I use a .040 cutting wheel in my angle grinder to cut the relief. I get a chisel to start them open then finish by placing the pulley over a piece of pipe and drive out the bearing. Tap in the new bearing and bend the tabs over with a hammer or vise.

There is not much about these shives that is to precise, they are just stampings but a $4 bearing will run a long time. 

I have two of these running in a mule drive for a couple years now.

Edited October 27, 2022 by JoeM

[peter lena 8,600]

@Lman  with a wide side seal , and careful removal , its very simple , just a complete grease wipe out , aerosol carb cleaner , for a complete flush , and repack with hi temp grease , reinstall seals , you are done . BTW  if you have to replace a bearing, get the exact replacement , then do the grease change . think its the collective  bearing drag that adds up to failures , and also pto clutch failures , my decks spin up with total ease , no screaming clutch or  effort on the decks . once you have done a couple of bearings , and witnessed the total ease of function  , you will be amazed at how much easier things can work . your  pulley comparison picture above, is a no brainer for me ,  I KNOW IT WORKS , whining bearings make a suffering noise , its shouting at you for help , this is easy , know you can do it , pete    

[peter lena 8,600]

@JoeM   @Handy Don  , couple of years ago , picked up 2 new mule drive pulleys , verified the wide grease seal , prior to purchase . soon as I  got them , did the seal removal and grease swap ,never removed the bearings  hi temp lucas green grease , replace the seals , also detailed the pto needle bearing and outer bearing , heim joint replaced the adjustment trunnion ,added washers at lever start next to battery , to firm up lever function and lubrication . it works so easily , its just totally different , have also done all my deck spindle bearings , like this , no drag , no screaming clutch , I  was fed up with the constant struggle  of belt driven  units , that is why  I  made the change . realize this is not in the book , but is sure does make you belt drive work  without effort . staying crazy , pete

[Lman 14]

Thank you all for your encouragement. I managed to restore the pulley to working order with a new bearing. As someone suggested, I used a Dremel-like tool to grind down the spot welds till they were almost flush with the surface. Then I gently tapped a small mason's chisel in the groove while turning the piece over and over until the two halves came apart. DIY store here only had one kind of bolt in this small size and no washers so I made do.

 

 

[peter lena 8,600]

@Lman  did you change the grease in the new bearing ?  pete

[Lman 14]

7 hours ago, peter lena said:

@Lman  did you change the grease in the new bearing ?  pete

 

Yes, I did. I popped the seals off the old bearing, cleaned and greased that one also. Was shocked at the amount of grime in there, those 'seals' don't appear to seal all that well. Had hoped to get back to mowing today, but got stuck getting the new drive belt on. I've done it before, the steering column has to come out. I couldn't get the engine pulley bolt to move. The clutch above it has wires, so has to be removed as well. Very annoying, I gave up and will cut the wires tomorrow and put a connector there. Tough day, hottest 29th of October on record here. kitchen fridge broke down too. Take care. Ben.

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

37 minutes ago, Lman said:

steering column has to come out. I couldn't get the engine pulley bolt to move. The clutch above it has wires, so has to be removed as well.

 

What machine is this that requires all that disassembly just to change a belt?

[Lman 14]

10 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

What machine is this that requires all that disassembly just to change a belt?

 

Yes, that is a bit over the top, isn't it? It's a Snapper ELT2240RD, a 40" lawn tractor with a 22 HP Briggs & Stratton engine, hydro drive and rear discharge. From what I've seen looking up info online, Craftsman/Snapper/Murray/Simplicity all have near identical models. I can only conclude that the people who designed these machines went out of their way to make working on your own tractor and replacing a drive belt as challenging as possible. For example, to slide the steering rod out, you have to lift the front axle almost a meter off the ground and then there's the wired clutch that has no connector.

 

It's a great mower, though, very powerful. It can drag itself up some impressive slopes with ease. And you can empty it without leaving the seat.

[Lman 14]

Okay, the drive belt is on. I cut the electric clutch cable without noting the two wires, which was not very smart. The general diagram below seems to suggest that the connection may be reversible, the wires on the clutch are both green. I'm sorry to ask such a  noob question, but can I determine with a tester which is which, and if so, how exactly, or is this not necessary? I don't want to blow a fuse on the tractor.

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Lman

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

4 hours ago, Lman said:

connection may be reversible,

 

The clutch should be a simple electromagnet, and as the diagram says, polarity should not matter.

[Lman 14]

1 hour ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

The clutch should be a simple electromagnet, and as the diagram says, polarity should not matter.

 

Thank you very much! Pictured here with the two new belts. Mowing all done, probably the last sortie of the season.

 

 

P.S. How much should such a connector cost? I paid about €12 for five of these. If you order a set of 5 in Shanghai, they cost around 3 or 4 times less, including shipping. To illustrate that the manufacturing cost of these items seems almost nil, the professional service that delivers parts several times a day provided 25x of one of the terminals, probably because they did not have the 5X in stock. I suspect this was the case because they charged me only for the 5x package. Maybe it's just me, but I think finding a good deal even on these basic items is a lot of work, the deck is often stacked against you.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Lman