702/854

[clueless 3,002]

Other than the year and the horse power what are the differences between the 854 and my 702? 

[Handy Don 12,233]

I'm aware of these. There may be others.

- Different front axle & steering linkages to get a tighter turning radius.

- Longer hood to cover the larger engine.

- 702 had one-piece fuel tank; 854 has two piece

[squonk 41,137]

702 is 2 yrs. older! 

[ri702bill 8,327]

The 702 has the straight vertical spindle front axle with a flat bar tieplate - as Don said, the turning radius is WIDE. The 854 has a cambered axle and 2 tierods - turns much tighter AND comes back to center under its own weight - the 702 kind of stays where you left it.... The frames are different due to the axles and pivot pins are not the same.

The 702 has a 2 position implement lift - one position for up, non-adjustable - down "floats".

The 1963 and later tractors have an adustable "up" position - really helps with setting a plow to skim on the pavement or grass - down "floats"

The rear fenders and underseat tool boxes are similar, but different - interchangable only as assemblies.

The choke and throttle cables are different. Steering wheels are different - 3 spoke on the 702, vs a 2 spoke version on the 854.

The battery holder on the 702 is a 3 side confinement welded to the frame; the retainer strap has a "Z" shape bend at each end and bolts on.

The battery holder on the 854 has the 3 sides and a bottom and has 2 studs to attach to the frame and is removable to ease steering shaft upkeep - the retainer is a flat strap, retained by 2 hexnuts.

 

Some more items - although both models use a Delco-Remy Starter Generator, the one on the 854 is longer, the belt guard is also different from the 702

The 702 uses a 2 prong keyed 2 position ignition switch to turn the coil on or off - there is a second momentary heavy current starter button.

The 854 uses a 3 position later style ignition switch that controls the starter solenoid.

Bill

Edited October 15, 2022 by ri702bill

[Pullstart 62,905]

3 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Longer hood to cover the larger engine.

Yes, but just larger air cleaner.  The engines are physically the same dimensions 

[ri702bill 8,327]

10 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

The engines are physically the same dimensions 

Front to back, side to side, yes. The longer stroke of the 8 hp means the K181 is a tad taller than is K161 cousin... as they share the same crankshaft to frame height....

[ri702bill 8,327]

And yet another - the implement lift levers and hood stands are different - a good thing. The 702 uses a 2 piece lever shaft and has a rockshaft weldment over it, pinned in place. VERY difficult to disassemble - usually rusted solid in place. The 854 uses an improved design - simlilar 1" shaft but a floating bolt into the hoodstand trunnion block on the lever side - easy to remove.....

[Handy Don 12,233]

All of the above comments reinforce whats been shared in threads and documents about the 1961-1964 period. A lot of important design and engineering changes came together in the 864. It was the most mature of the full-feature round hood garden tractors (the Lawn Ranger stayed round-hooded until 1968 but with the full-fender seat pan). It is no wonder it is so popular among collectors and users.

Looking back, it's clear to me that the goal of having most of the models share the same frame, component layout, and body work and of having more room for under-tractor implements led to the long frame and squared hoods that started in '65. 

[clueless 3,002]

I know that the hood is longer on the 854 because of the 8 hp air filter is larger (longer) but is it just the air filter or the air filter and carb? I can put the smaller air filter from a 7 hp on the 8 would the hood clear then on the 702?

[Handy Don 12,233]

3 hours ago, clueless said:

I know that the hood is longer on the 854 because of the 8 hp air filter is larger (longer) but is it just the air filter or the air filter and carb? I can put the smaller air filter from a 7 hp on the 8 would the hood clear then on the 702?

I suspect the carbs might be the same (mine is a Carter N), or at least have the same dimension from face to face.

So, yes, with the smaller air filter on the 854, a 702 hood will clear. BUT that filter setup also has much less filter surface restricting the airflow into the higher displacement engine quite a bit. WH's specification for that engine called for the larger filter on the K181 for a good reason.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Handy Don

[clueless 3,002]

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

I suspect the carbs might be the same (mine is a Carter N), or at least have the same dimension from face to face.

So, yes, with the smaller air filter on the 854, a 702 hood will clear. BUT that filter setup also has much less filter surface restricting the airflow into the higher displacement engine quite a bit. WH's specification for that engine called for the larger filter on the K181 for a good reason.

I understand the larger airflow on a higher displacement engine, but on a 8hp vs a 7 hp does it effect the engine also or just the power?

 

[Handy Don 12,233]

5 hours ago, clueless said:

I understand the larger airflow on a higher displacement engine, but on a 8hp vs a 7 hp does it effect the engine also or just the power?

 

I've not actually tried to fit one engine's parts to the other except the air cleaner assembly. 

If you are asking if the reduced air will damage the engine, I don't have a definitive answer. Someone else might.

For sure the engine will behave differently with the carb and engine not seeing the volume/speed/pressures of airflow they expect.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Handy Don