Starter solenoid saga... Kohler Magnum...

[Snoopy11 5,714]

Hello my fine people,

 

I have a pretty strange problem that I wanted to run by all you electriphiles. So... a week or so ago, the 718-Z started an odd problem. When I turn the key to start it, I could hear the starter solenoid clicking, but the starter would not turn over. It would take half a dozen turns of the key, but it WOULD crank eventually.

 

Then the solenoid stopped cranking the engine altogether. I performed electrical tests and deemed the starter solenoid bad. Even though it was clicking... it was not transferring power. So, I took the new Duralast solenoid off the Tecumseh HH120 and put it on the 718-Z. It worked great... for about 3-4 starts.

 

Then it clicked, like the first solenoid did. Click, click, click, but not start. It eventually cranked the engine 1 time... then it stopped clicking altogether.

 

When I put the Duralast solenoid in, I noticed it had a crack in the housing... which I thought was odd considering that it is brand new. I am going to return it to Autozone next time I go out.

 

I guess my question is... could it be coincidence that 2 solenoids went bad? I have performed every test I can think of, ran ground to solenoid, checked key switch output, and battery supply.

 

Right now, I took the solenoid off my L-157 and put it on the 718-Z and that solenoid is putting out proper voltage to starter... working wonderfully so far... but I've only started it 3 times...

 

I just want to make sure that I'm not missing anything... as this is a very odd phenomenon...

 

Adding @Jeff-C175 @Evguy @ebinmaine @squonk @davem1111 @Pullstart

 

Don

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

37 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

checked key switch output

 

Under load?  With solenoid connected?

 

 

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

40 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

could it be coincidence that 2 solenoids went bad?

 

It could, but I would look elsewhere first.

 

Have you got a schematic for the manchine that I can look at?

 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Jeff-C175

[Rick3478 428]

I have a pretty low opinion of Duralast, so in my mind there's no coincidence - it was bad out of the box.  Get a refund and buy something of decent quality.

[Snoopy11 5,714]

14 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Have you got a schematic for the manchine that I can look at?

Not that I know of... but I'll look for something tomorrow... although... the wiring on this machine is a little... 'different'... than what the manual shows... (I think I told you about that )

 

Basically, you have 12 volt supply from key swtich to ign. post on starter solenoid. Power from alternator goes to regulator then that 14.5 volts goes to + battery post on battery side of the solenoid.

 

I did check power output while turning key. It is 12.5 volts, as it should be... the power does not waiver through the ign. circuit. Ground is fresh, new, and clean.

 

I thought maybe there might be a short to ground through the solenoid to starter wire... but I thoroughly checked it and there doesn't appear to be any scuffing or cuts in the wire. Starter hauls butt when 12v+ is applied.

 

4 minutes ago, Rick3478 said:

Get a refund and buy something of decent quality.

I bought another Briggs and Straton starter solenoid like I use on all my other machines and have never had an issue with.

 

I will leave the one that is on there now installed and see what happens... (it's also a Briggs solenoid)...

 

Don

[Evguy 556]

I was going to offer a suggestion but I think you ruled it out. I had losses to a solenoid on 314, solenoid click but no start, battery jump to solenoid and started every time. 
collective losses through safety switches was the issue.

[953 nut 55,324]

9 hours ago, Snoopy11 said:

could it be coincidence that 2 solenoids went bad?

Probably neither solenoid is bad. Chances are you have battery cable end that is not up to par and when a load is applied it heats up the corrosion causing high resistance. Follow this step by step process and you will find the culprit.

 

Why won’t my starter turn over from the key switch?

Lets take a logical step by step inspection of your starter problem.

Is your PTO in the ON position, a wheel horse will not start with the PTO on.

Have you had the battery load tested at an auto parts store?

Have you cleaned and tightened all electrical connections including grounds?

Are all fuses good and fuse holders cleaned?

If these have all been done, we can check components of the starting system as follows; don’t skip a step or you may miss the problem.

Be sure the transmission is in neutral and the parking brake is set.

Take a pair of automotive jumper cables and connect the black cable to your battery  "-" and a good clean spot on the engine. Now connect the other cable to the large post on the starter and touch the other end to the battery "+" terminal, does the starter turn over? If the starter turns over the battery and starter are good. If it didn't turn over try the same steps with the battery in your car/truck, if that cures the problem then the "good" battery wasn't so good.

Presuming the starter turned over move the jumper wire from the starter post to the other end of the wire going to the starter which is one of the large posts on the solenoid. If the starter turns over when the battery is touched by the jumper as before then that cable is good, if not you have found your problem.

Presuming the starter turned over move that jumper to the other terminal of the solenoid, connect the other end to the battery and use a small piece of wire to temporarily connect the battery "+" terminal to the small terminal on the solenoid, this should cause the solenoid to close and the starter to turn over. If not, the solenoid is probably the problem.

If this was successful remove the large jumper cable and use the small jumper wire to the small terminal of the solenoid, the solenoid should close and the starter turn over. If not the cable to the battery is the problem.

Presuming all of these have been successful remove the black jumper wire and repeat the small jumper to small terminal, if the starter turns over the ground is good.

If all of these components test good then remove your ignition switch, be sure the transmission is in neutral, parking brake on, clutch depressed and PTO off. Use a small jumper to connect the terminals that were connected to the “B” and “S” terminals of the ignition switch. If the starter turns over then the PTO switch and other safety switches are operating properly and your ignition switch may be bad

[squonk 41,158]

You say you have 12.5 v power output turning the key. Where are you checking this?  If you have say 13.2 at the battery and 12.5 at the key switch for example, that's a pretty good voltage drop. Cables can look good, Test good with an ohm meter and be shot. You can have 100 corroded strands inside a wire and 1 good one and it will test ok. 

 

Also is the solenoid itself grounded good? Coil could be only pulling in partial way.

Edited October 15, 2022 by squonk

[lynnmor 7,308]

1 hour ago, 953 nut said:

Have you had the battery load tested at an auto parts store?

Have you cleaned and tightened all electrical connections including grounds?

 

My guess is that the problem will be found within the above two steps.

[Snoopy11 5,714]

13 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Probably neither solenoid is bad

Well, I tested the Duralast model yesterday... it will not click. I took it into Autozone today, gave them my order number from my online order... and they told me that they needed the original box that the solenoid came in to return/exchange/refund....

 

Now... I don't know about you guys... but I don't really keep parts boxes laying around... so... I guess I am up the creek with that....

 

Don

Edited October 16, 2022 by Snoopy11

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

2 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

don't really keep parts boxes laying around... so... I guess I am up the creek with that....

 

That's total bull5h1t  which I would not accept.  I'd be going to corporate.

 

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

2 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

That's total bull5h1t  which I would not accept.  I'd be going to corporate.

 

 

You bet it is.

 

(I erased my address... but here is the order print out that I took to the store with me).

 

 

Don

[Evguy 556]

11 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

That's total bull5h1t  which I would not accept.  I'd be going to corporate.

 

 

I agree! I would not put up with that crap 

I never get asked for boxes from my brake parts. I would ask to see policy that states that 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Evguy

[Snoopy11 5,714]

12 hours ago, squonk said:

You say you have 12.5 v power output turning the key. Where are you checking this

This is at the key switch signal post on the starter solenoid. I ran a separate ground to the solenoid as well...

 

I'm not sure about the battery cables themselves... I thought they were good... hard to tell really. Again, the starter hauls butt when I hot-wire the system.

 

I am probably going to dig into the electrical in the next few days. I got nada done today... as one of the female lady women broke a tooth... so we spent the day dealing with that...

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

4 minutes ago, Evguy said:

I never get asked for boxes from my brake parts. I would ask to see policy that states that

I am chatting with Autozone customer service, they indicated that no boxes are required for lifetime warranty...

 

Whether Autozone.com representative will be able to assist remains to be seen...

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

14 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

Whether Autozone.com representative will be able to assist remains to be seen...

NOPE... they sure didn't help.

 

They told me to either take the part back and request a replacement/refund or contact corporate.

 

I'm going to call corporate on Monday.

 

Don

[squonk 41,158]

Here's what you do. Buy another solenoid. Fix the machine. Take the bad solenoid and receipt you got with the  2 ND  one and the 2ND  box and return for a refund. Then call the co.

.

[Evguy 556]

3 hours ago, squonk said:

Here's what you do. Buy another solenoid. Fix the machine. Take the bad solenoid and receipt you got with the  2 ND  one and the 2ND  box and return for a refund. Then call the co.

.

I was going to suggest this if  Don couldn’t get the part returned. 
Tis a shame to resort to this with a warranty part. 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

5 hours ago, squonk said:

Here's what you do. Buy another solenoid. Fix the machine. Take the bad solenoid and receipt you got with the  2 ND  one and the 2ND  box and return for a refund. Then call the co.

.

 

Yessir, that is some good advice. I may go back my Autozone today when I go out... that should be fun...

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

I went by Autozone again today. Let's just say... there is a new solenoid on order for me to pickup tomorrow... and I didn't pay a dime...

 

Don