GT vs Super GT

[RED-Z06 2,221]

Haven't had a chance to put them together like this til now but i always felt like the C series and 300/400/500s were really good sized Garden Tractors and they are, i didnt feel like the Simplicity felt all that big in comparison but..

[953 nut 55,155]

"Super C" (C-195) and GT-14 were a bit bigger than the run-of-the-mill 300/400/500.

[Pullstart 62,829]

 

 

[Pullstart 62,829]

What model Simplicity is that?  I get taken back when I realize that most brands had high volume box store machines of lesser quality, baring the same paint schemes as real GTs.  

[RED-Z06 2,221]

1 hour ago, Pullstart said:

What model Simplicity is that?  I get taken back when I realize that most brands had high volume box store machines of lesser quality, baring the same paint schemes as real GTs.  

Legacy XL 27hp

[slim67 2,735]

7 hours ago, RED-Z06 said:

Legacy XL 27hp

Not a cheap tractor but Simplicity makes good stuff.

[RED-Z06 2,221]

52 minutes ago, slim67 said:

Not a cheap tractor but Simplicity makes good stuff.

Im very disappointed in Simplicity, when they discontinued the LXL line last year they stopped producing parts and accessories...so we are SOL 

[slim67 2,735]

3 hours ago, RED-Z06 said:

Im very disappointed in Simplicity, when they discontinued the LXL line last year they stopped producing parts and accessories...so we are SOL 

Probably not selling very many. You know the story. 

[sergeant 291]

The Legacy XL was actually Just discontinued In April 2022

Now the Prestige is really a Garden tractor In name only. Simplicity discontinued Belt driven PTO tiller In 2021 replaced with an Agri-Fab Made Tow Behind 5HP tiller

They're still making a 1point Hitch (sleeve Hitch) for both The Conquest and Prestige, But there are Just not really advertising it( I Bought a 1 Point for them Now Have a 1point for suspension Models and Non suspension models) just in case i get a used Prestige

 

Conquest and Prestige Now Have electronic Power steering (same company MTD Uses) I do Like the Fact they are using electric Over Hydraulic actuators for the Hydraulic lift. Think it is one of these https://www.thomsonlinear.com/en/products/linear-actuators/h-track

But it could be One of these https://ph.parker.com/us/en/compact-electro-hydraulic-actuator Wish companies Had been smart back In the early 1980s like Jacobson, who actually had an early electric over hydraulic actuator. Instead of a standard electric actuator Because the electric over Hydraulic actuators are Just as Fast as the standard Hydraulic cylinder. It is nice to have Plug and play Hydraulics Now Had Planned On Putting an OEM Hydraulic lift on my IH Cub Cadet 106. But have decided to replace the Electric actuator with either The Warner H track or Parker compact On it So I can Have Hydraulic Lift without having to UN-couple the drive shaft from the engine to mount the pump Belt

 

I Know Simplicity  was Having supplier Issues for attachments for the Legacy XL  since about 2018  specifically the Backhoe from Kiwk-way as Don Moalsted sold Kwik-Way to Hitch Doc in 2017 and Hitch doc really just wanted to Make Skid steer Blades under the Kwik-way Label

The other Issue if You saw they were only Putting Air cooled Briggs engines In the Legacy XL for the Last 4 or 5 Years No Liquid cooled Gas or Diesel . The Thing I was Told By a Simplicity Factory Rep is they are Looking at Producing a True Sub Compact. He wasn't sure if they would farm it out to a supplier or actually Build a Sub Compact in house I guess will see what KPS does . Briggs Parent  KPS is Known for Fixing companies and Not destroying them. Had KPS Not stepped In when they did Simplicity and Snapper and there other outdoor power equipment lines would have been sold off. KPs does have a History of fixing companies and selling them to Stanley  Meaning You Have Cub Cadet and Simplicity under the same Label . Stanley is dropping all Shaft driven Cub Cadets in 2023 In Favor of Belt driven Tractors.

 

The Deere X700 series is the last Super Garden tractor left on the Market. You Can Get an aftermarket Loader from CTC and a Aftermarket Wallenstein Backhoe for them if You want . Deere Just Updated the Paint color On there Mowing Decks to John Deere Green for the S100 through X700 series Tractors

Edited October 6, 2022 by sergeant

[RED-Z06 2,221]

53 minutes ago, sergeant said:

The Legacy XL was actually Just discontinued In April 2022

Now the Prestige is really a Garden tractor In name only. Simplicity discontinued Belt driven PTO tiller In 2021 replaced with an Agri-Fab Made Tow Behind 5HP tiller

They're still making a 1point Hitch (sleeve Hitch) for both The Conquest and Prestige, But there are Just not really advertising it( I Bought a 1 Point for them Now Have a 1point for suspension Models and Non suspension models) just in case i get a used Prestige

 

Conquest and Prestige Now Have electronic Power steering (same company MTD Uses) I do Like the Fact they are using electric Over Hydraulic actuators for the Hydraulic lift. Think it is one of these https://www.thomsonlinear.com/en/products/linear-actuators/h-track

But it could be One of these https://ph.parker.com/us/en/compact-electro-hydraulic-actuator Wish companies Had been smart back In the early 1980s like Jacobson, who actually had an early electric over hydraulic actuator. Instead of a standard electric actuator Because the electric over Hydraulic actuators are Just as Fast as the standard Hydraulic cylinder. It is nice to have Plug and play Hydraulics Now Had Planned On Putting an OEM Hydraulic lift on my IH Cub Cadet 106. But have decided to replace the Electric actuator with either The Warner H track or Parker compact On it So I can Have Hydraulic Lift without having to UN-couple the drive shaft from the engine to mount the pump Belt

 

I Know Simplicity  was Having supplier Issues for attachments for the Legacy XL  since about 2018  specifically the Backhoe from Kiwk-way as Don Moalsted sold Kwik-Way to Hitch Doc in 2017 and Hitch doc really just wanted to Make Skid steer Blades under the Kwik-way Label

The other Issue if You saw they were only Putting Air cooled Briggs engines In the Legacy XL for the Last 4 or 5 Years No Liquid cooled Gas or Diesel . The Thing I was Told By a Simplicity Factory Rep is they are Looking at Producing a True Sub Compact. He wasn't sure if they would farm it out to a supplier or actually Build a Sub Compact in house I guess will see what KPS does . Briggs Parent  KPS is Known for Fixing companies and Not destroying them. Had KPS Not stepped In when they did Simplicity and Snapper and there other outdoor power equipment lines would have been sold off. KPs does have a History of fixing companies and selling them to Stanley  Meaning You Have Cub Cadet and Simplicity under the same Label . Stanley is dropping all Shaft driven Cub Cadets in 2023 In Favor of Belt driven Tractors.

 

The Deere X700 series is the last Super Garden tractor left on the Market. You Can Get an aftermarket Loader from CTC and a Aftermarket Wallenstein Backhoe for them if You want . Deere Just Updated the Paint color On there Mowing Decks to John Deere Green for the S100 through X700 series Tractors

I needed an Orbital valve, out of stock with no fulfillment.  Needed a steering tilt assembly...out of stock with no full fulfillment.  Steering shaft coupler, discontinued no inventory.  Decals...discontinued, a simple light switch...i bought one off ebay through a liquidating dealer, only place i could find it.  Gauges...dont exist.  

 

We have people with 4 year old $14,000 units that cant get parts, its very concerning...apparently they are allowed to skirt laws that require parts be manufactured or an adequate replacement be available for X years because of a Covid Loophole and their Bankruptcy issues.

 

Briggs made a real mess, they bought up Generac, Ferris, agco, Massey, snapper, snapper pro, murray, Simplicity, spawned  Briggs Power Products from the Generac line, then seemingly sold back the Generac name...that was weird.  Ditched Murray, Massey, Allis, and Snapper Pro became low tier, budget minded Ferris and Simplicity models that used an alarming number of Murray bits.

 

Then Briggs broke their deal with Mitsubishi/Daihatsu (no more Japanese built twins or 3LC/Diesels) now they make the Vanguards in various countrys...and they love to toss rods 

Edited October 6, 2022 by RED-Z06

[sergeant 291]

1 hour ago, RED-Z06 said:

I needed an Orbital valve, out of stock with no fulfillment.  Needed a steering tilt assembly...out of stock with no full fulfillment.  Steering shaft coupler, discontinued no inventory.  Decals...discontinued, a simple light switch...i bought one off ebay through a liquidating dealer, only place i could find it.  Gauges...dont exist.  

 

We have people with 4 year old $14,000 units that cant get parts, its very concerning...apparently they are allowed to skirt laws that require parts be manufactured or an adequate replacement be available for X years because of a Covid Loophole and their Bankruptcy issues.

 

Briggs made a real mess, they bought up Generac, Ferris, agco, Massey, snapper, snapper pro, murray, Simplicity, spawned  Briggs Power Products from the Generac line, then seemingly sold back the Generac name...that was weird.  Ditched Murray, Massey, Allis, and Snapper Pro became low tier, budget minded Ferris and Simplicity models that used an alarming number of Murray bits.

 

Then Briggs broke their deal with Mitsubishi/Daihatsu (no more Japanese built twins or 3LC/Diesels) now they make the Vanguards in various countrys...and they love to toss rods 

 

AGCO, Massey, They were Just contracts Briggs Never Owned the Names AGCO dropped the AGCO Tractor Brand several Years ago, so they discontinued the contract with Briggs to Produce Lawn & Garden tractors under the AGCO name. Once Massey(AGCO) Perfected there sub compact they dropped the Legacy XL clone and slowly dropped the Other Lawn & Garden tractors when they decided the Sub compact was Going to Be the smallest Machine they would Put the Massey name on In North America and Many Massey dealers choose to Become Simplicity dealers In North America or Just sell another Brand of Outdoor Power equipment   for their dealerships In Europe Massey Outdoor Power equipment was Not Simplicity clones They were Made By MTD/Cub Cadet Basically the Cub Cadet 1500, 2500 & 3000 series and Yard Machine Lawn tractors In Massey colors and Labeling Basically Cub Cadets & Yard Machines In Massey Colors. The choice to drop those clones was AGCO's choice, Not Briggs. Briggs was probably Not the company that Simplicity should have sold itself to. Will see what KPS Owner of Briggs does. KPS Bailed out Briggs, so They actually never went into full Bankruptcy. I bet KPS will sell off the Outdoor Power equipment lines eventually or spin it off to be Its Own company. West of the Mississippi Valley states, Simplicity has a very small Market Cub, John Deere and Kubota are the Kings Out in that area of the U.S.  Maybe one or two Simplicity dealers In Texas, One or Two In Colorado. Simplicity's Market is the Mississippi Valley states and East of the Mississippi They were Just Never Big sellers In Plain states and West. Part of that is do to Lack of Dealerships and Marketing

 

Look at the Price of a Prestige today $11,449.00 Look at the Price of a JD X590 with a 54-inch deck  $9,999.00

 

I think Simplicity May even go the Way of the dodo bird at that Price, for $3,500 More You Can get a John Deere X758 Diesel AWD.

 

Inflation Is a Killer right Now for the Outdoor Power equipment Industry  Early this year the Prestige and the Deere X590 were Both $1,000 Less In Price

 

But that has Been Pretty Bad On Briggs and Now KPS Not supporting Machines that are 4 years Old  Imagine someone Bought a Legacy XL at the Beginning of this year if You Can support a 4 year Old tractor what are they going to do Next year if the early 2022 Model has an Issue in 2023. MTD Make Parts for 1 year after a Model Leaves Production. Deere Makes Parts for 15 years after a Model Leaves Production  SO  I may have an Issue with My Cub Cadet XT3 getting Parts In about 5 years if I have to . I can still support My 10 year old John Deere X748 reasonably well

[RED-Z06 2,221]

11 hours ago, sergeant said:

AGCO, Massey, They were Just contracts Briggs Never Owned the Names AGCO dropped the AGCO Tractor Brand several Years ago, so they discontinued the contract with Briggs to Produce Lawn & Garden tractors under the AGCO name. Once Massey(AGCO) Perfected there sub compact they dropped the Legacy XL clone and slowly dropped the Other Lawn & Garden tractors when they decided the Sub compact was Going to Be the smallest Machine they would Put the Massey name on In North America and Many Massey dealers choose to Become Simplicity dealers In North America or Just sell another Brand of Outdoor Power equipment   for their dealerships In Europe Massey Outdoor Power equipment was Not Simplicity clones They were Made By MTD/Cub Cadet Basically the Cub Cadet 1500, 2500 & 3000 series and Yard Machine Lawn tractors In Massey colors and Labeling Basically Cub Cadets & Yard Machines In Massey Colors. The choice to drop those clones was AGCO's choice, Not Briggs. Briggs was probably Not the company that Simplicity should have sold itself to. Will see what KPS Owner of Briggs does. KPS Bailed out Briggs, so They actually never went into full Bankruptcy. I bet KPS will sell off the Outdoor Power equipment lines eventually or spin it off to be Its Own company. West of the Mississippi Valley states, Simplicity has a very small Market Cub, John Deere and Kubota are the Kings Out in that area of the U.S.  Maybe one or two Simplicity dealers In Texas, One or Two In Colorado. Simplicity's Market is the Mississippi Valley states and East of the Mississippi They were Just Never Big sellers In Plain states and West. Part of that is do to Lack of Dealerships and Marketing

 

Look at the Price of a Prestige today $11,449.00 Look at the Price of a JD X590 with a 54-inch deck  $9,999.00

 

I think Simplicity May even go the Way of the dodo bird at that Price, for $3,500 More You Can get a John Deere X758 Diesel AWD.

 

Inflation Is a Killer right Now for the Outdoor Power equipment Industry  Early this year the Prestige and the Deere X590 were Both $1,000 Less In Price

 

But that has Been Pretty Bad On Briggs and Now KPS Not supporting Machines that are 4 years Old  Imagine someone Bought a Legacy XL at the Beginning of this year if You Can support a 4 year Old tractor what are they going to do Next year if the early 2022 Model has an Issue in 2023. MTD Make Parts for 1 year after a Model Leaves Production. Deere Makes Parts for 15 years after a Model Leaves Production  SO  I may have an Issue with My Cub Cadet XT3 getting Parts In about 5 years if I have to . I can still support My 10 year old John Deere X748 reasonably well

I can still get many parts for my 91 Deere 420 (except an engine which i need) but...Emblems, badges, switches, knobs, cables...seat, all readily available.

 

Had to make a choke for the Legacy 

[sergeant 291]

22 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

I can still get many parts for my 91 Deere 420 (except an engine which i need) but...Emblems, badges, switches, knobs, cables...seat, all readily available.

 

Had to make a choke for the Legacy 

Well that's Not Deere On the engine That is ONAN's Parent company

I Plan to Put a Briggs In My 1992 416H eventually Need a New Muffler for the ONAN . The 416H is Great wish they Had Used Kohler Twins In stead of ONAN in the 400 & 500 series Wheel Horses

[RED-Z06 2,221]

12 minutes ago, sergeant said:

Well that's Not Deere On the engine That is ONAN's Parent company

I Plan to Put a Briggs In My 1992 416H eventually Need a New Muffler for the ONAN . The 416H is Great wish they Had Used Kohler Twins In stead of ONAN in the 400 & 500 series Wheel Horses

Only issues ive had is the plastic flyball spacer slipping, which is a widespread but easy enough fix.  But the P220 valve seats were...unacceptable 

[wh500special 2,168]

On 10/6/2022 at 1:11 PM, sergeant said:

… wish they Had Used Kohler Twins In stead of ONAN in the 400 & 500 series Wheel Horses

FWIW, the Onans were used on the 520 because they had more usable power and torque than the available Kohlers and Briggs at the time. And they wanted the extra margin for the 60” deck and the big snow blower. 
 

You also mentioned the electro-hydraulic lifts on some competing makes…you may not have seen one since they aren’t popular in these circles and aren’t ultra common, but the Toro Wheel Horse 260 series used an electric-over-hydraulic attachment lift on the 269 and 270 models.  It was pretty slick and a well integrated pump unit. 
 

Steve

[sergeant 291]

1 hour ago, wh500special said:

FWIW, the Onans were used on the 520 because they had more usable power and torque than the available Kohlers and Briggs at the time. And they wanted the extra margin for the 60” deck and the big snow blower. 
 

You also mentioned the electro-hydraulic lifts on some competing makes…you may not have seen one since they aren’t popular in these circles and aren’t ultra common, but the Toro Wheel Horse 260 series used an electric-over-hydraulic attachment lift on the 269 and 270 models.  It was pretty slick and a well integrated pump unit. 
 

Steve

I know about the 260 series. But it used a different electric over Hydraulic system, actually had an electric Pump with reservoir with Hydraulic hoses to a cylinder, Not as slick as the Electric over Hydraulic actuators that are available today or the system Jacobson used In the Late 1970 and early 1980s which was In one complete package.        

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

I would get rid of My 416H with a ONAN in a Heartbeat if I could find a 314H with a Nice single cylinder Kohler In the same condition as My 416H. But I'll just buy a B&S engine for the 416H I have Nothing against the ONAN engine, it was an Excellent engine as long as it Can be supported well. Today, It is still easier to Support a 50-year-Old Kohler engine than a 30-year-old ONAN engine. But that Cummings for You

 

I almost bought a 312H New In winter 1991/1992 with a Kwik-way Loader, and the Only reason I considered a Wheel Horse was the Fact it was so Much Lower In Price than a John Deere 318 with a 44 Loader. Glad I didn't looking back. Power steering to me is a Must for Loader work, But it actually took me 8 more Year to figure that Out After Having a 1999 White GT2055 with a Kwik-way Loader and No Power steering! Bought a Used JD 425 with a 40 Loader to Make Up for that Mistake. I Just use My 416H Mostly for Garden cultivating. Once I get a front Blade for it will Probably Take Over some of My snow plowing needs where My JD 2025R compact with Cab won't fit or My JD X748 with Blower and Cab have Issues do to tree Clearance. I use a JD GX355 with a blade right Now for those areas. The One thing I have always hated about Deere is the Manual angle Kit,  even since my New JD 240 In 1988. I have always Like the Manual angle On the Wheel Horse Blades. Always found Wheel Horse to be excellent for snow removal

[RED-Z06 2,221]

8 hours ago, sergeant said:

I know about the 260 series. But it used a different electric over Hydraulic system, actually had an electric Pump with reservoir with Hydraulic hoses to a cylinder, Not as slick as the Electric over Hydraulic actuators that are available today or the system Jacobson used In the Late 1970 and early 1980s which was In one complete package.        

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             

I would get rid of My 416H with a ONAN in a Heartbeat if I could find a 314H with a Nice single cylinder Kohler In the same condition as My 416H. But I'll just buy a B&S engine for the 416H I have Nothing against the ONAN engine, it was an Excellent engine as long as it Can be supported well. Today, It is still easier to Support a 50-year-Old Kohler engine than a 30-year-old ONAN engine. But that Cummings for You

 

I almost bought a 312H New In winter 1991/1992 with a Kwik-way Loader, and the Only reason I considered a Wheel Horse was the Fact it was so Much Lower In Price than a John Deere 318 with a 44 Loader. Glad I didn't looking back. Power steering to me is a Must for Loader work, But it actually took me 8 more Year to figure that Out After Having a 1999 White GT2055 with a Kwik-way Loader and No Power steering! Bought a Used JD 425 with a 40 Loader to Make Up for that Mistake. I Just use My 416H Mostly for Garden cultivating. Once I get a front Blade for it will Probably Take Over some of My snow plowing needs where My JD 2025R compact with Cab won't fit or My JD X748 with Blower and Cab have Issues do to tree Clearance. I use a JD GX355 with a blade right Now for those areas. The One thing I have always hated about Deere is the Manual angle Kit,  even since my New JD 240 In 1988. I have always Like the Manual angle On the Wheel Horse Blades. Always found Wheel Horse to be excellent for snow removal

Getting oem kohler K/M parts has become quite difficult 

[sergeant 291]

17 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

Getting oem kohler K/M parts has become quite difficult 

I haven't had an Issue  compared to Onan

[RED-Z06 2,221]

29 minutes ago, sergeant said:

I haven't had an Issue  compared to Onan

Had no luck finding OEM Rod, piston and rings for an M12S last year, but i could still shell out 4 digits for a P218G rebuild kit at the time if i were inclined to do so.

 

But i think over the next couple years its all going to dry up...Manufacturers just cant justify supporting antiquated stuff

Edited October 9, 2022 by RED-Z06

[wh500special 2,168]

12 hours ago, sergeant said:

…I use a JD GX355 with a blade right Now for those areas…

 

 

…Always found Wheel Horse to be excellent for snow removal

The 355 is the one with the vertical shaft, v-twin Yanmar diesel isn’t it?  That’s a neat engine format. 
 

I don’t think there is a better garden tractor snow pushing arrangement than the A-frame Wheel Horse blade format.  Truly an efficient design. 
 

Steve

[RED-Z06 2,221]

10 minutes ago, wh500special said:

The 355 is the one with the vertical shaft, v-twin Yanmar diesel isn’t it?  That’s a neat engine format. 
 

I don’t think there is a better garden tractor snow pushing arrangement than the A-frame Wheel Horse blade format.  Truly an efficient design. 
 

Steve

Yes, 355D was an odd unit, looked at them new and opted for the 445efi and 40Loader.  The 355 was strange in that it made tremendous torque but still had the belt drive power train.

[sergeant 291]

15 minutes ago, wh500special said:

The 355 is the one with the vertical shaft, v-twin Yanmar diesel isn’t it?  That’s a neat engine format. 
 

I don’t think there is a better garden tractor snow pushing arrangement than the A-frame Wheel Horse blade format.  Truly an efficient design. 
 

Steve

Typo I have a 2004 GX335 Not a GX355. Not saying it Not a Great Tractor for Pushing snow. The The Manual angle Kits Can be the weak Point of the Blade  other than That it is an excellent Blade. When I Lived Near FT Devens Massachusetts I use to Barrow My Neighbors  WH 312A for snow Plowing duties. When I was waiting on Parts for My JD 130  one winter. Bought my JD 240 and didn't use it In the winter Time for several years  as I was station In Non snow Belt states  . When I returned to snow Belt states I sure Missed that Manual angle on the Wheel Horse Blade  compared to the angle Kit On My 46-inch Deere Blade I had for the JD 240