HH60 Angle of operation/oil starvation

[Jimmy66 39]

Good evening gentlemen, I've got some hills around my property and I'm a little worried about prolonged angles of operation and how that could affect wear and tear on my Tec HH60.  Does anyone have the specs?  Also wondering about what is too steep for a short frame? (Head on, and perpendicular)

[ebinmaine 67,659]

I've wondered if there's an actual written spec on Angle of Operation for a Wheelhorse or even generically as a Garden Tractor.  

 

I can tell you with the forklifts we use at work each one has its own spec and of course OSHA rules state their own as well.  

Industry standard for many situations is 10% which is pretty shallow in comparison to what many of us do.  

 

On our acreage Trina and I have a few spots that are quite steep. Enough that I wouldn't even think about side direction travel but fore and aft occurs on a regular basis. 

 

We're only on these areas for maybe 30 seconds ((??)) at a time. 

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,049]

Looked in the Tecumseh operator manuals we have but no luck.

Did notice this though

[ri702bill 8,347]

The HH60 has no mechanical fuel pump, unlike the Kohler - therefore, you rely on gravity feed.

IF you have a battery and a charging system, you could add a low pressure electric fuel pump.....

Oops - reread the post - you are not asking about fuel starvation, rather about the great Kaboom when the the crank grabs the connecting rod and it breaks.

Edited October 3, 2022 by ri702bill

[Ed Kennell 38,232]

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Angle of Operation for a Wheelhorse or even generically as a Garden Tractor. 

If the goal is to keep the horizontal crankshaft of these splash lubed engines parallel to the slope  of a hill,   does that mean side belt driven tractors like Wheel Horse should only be worked up and down the slope?        All other tractors with the crankshaft turned 90degrees  should only be worked along (parallel) with the slope?

I assume vertical shaft engines could be worked in any position.    

Not thinking operator safety.....just engine lubrication.

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by Ed Kennell

[peter lena 8,638]

@Ed Kennell  / @ebinmaine think  about that , when I see wheels off the ground on a pull , or fun time , usually under a strain  , with minimal oil  supply source , obviousely not an issue with an oil pump engine . minimise that on my  , lawn edge  also use low range / hi gear  .  pete

[rick 233]

The Tecumseh HH60 engine was used on many TroyBilt tillers (Horse 6) and gave good service.  The only caution regarding oil was to keep it to the full mark.  Engines on tillers were mounted PTO side to the rear and when tilling deep achieved a pretty good angle down in the rear.

I know this info doesn't relate to a WheelHorse, I just put it for what it's worth.

[ebinmaine 67,659]

2 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

If the goal is to keep the horizontal crankshaft of these splash lubed engines parallel to the slope  of a hill,   does that mean side belt driven tractors like Wheel Horse should only be worked up and down the slope?        All other tractors with the crankshaft turned 90degrees  should only be worked along (parallel) with the slope?

I assume vertical shaft engines could be worked in any position.    

Not thinking operator safety.....just engine lubrication.

 

 

 

I'm no engineer so take what I say with a grain of salt and then some.

 

It seems logical to me that it isn't so much about being horizontal shaft or vertical shaft but about being pressure-lubed.

But even then, the oil pump pickup obviously needs to stay in the oil well puddle ... or your sucking air. Not oil.

 

The one area that Trina and I have not been forced to delve into on these wheel horse tractors yet is the engines and their inner workings.

 

I believe we would find that if there is such a thing as a recommended angle of operation specification for any of the given splash lube engines we use it probably exceeds our ability as humans to defy gravity and stay seated and/or that same ability of the tractor as a machine to stay on its own four wheels.

 

Of course I do realize that, if true, my last statement kind of makes this whole thread of moot point but the discussion is very interesting nonetheless.

[RED-Z06 2,221]

5 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

If the goal is to keep the horizontal crankshaft of these splash lubed engines parallel to the slope  of a hill,   does that mean side belt driven tractors like Wheel Horse should only be worked up and down the slope?        All other tractors with the crankshaft turned 90degrees  should only be worked along (parallel) with the slope?

I assume vertical shaft engines could be worked in any position.    

Not thinking operator safety.....just engine lubrication.

 

 

Some Horizontals are splash lubed with a rod dipper, others are pressure lubed with a pump and pickup.  A splash lube will aeresolize oil as long as the dipper touches oil.  A pump style usually has a baffled sump to hold oil around the pickup... as long as oil covers the pickup its good.

 

Vertical shafts also work both ways, some verts use a "flapper" driven off the cam or crank gear that sits in oil and spins in it...others use a pump, pickup.

 

 

Rule of thumb is 15⁰ max tilt with the oil on full with the exception of KT17 Series 1 which shouldn't be tilted.

[Snoopy11 5,714]

Here is some experience talking...

 

I mow and work on some series grades here on the funny farm... and I've never had any issues whatsoever with both splash and pressure lube engines.

 

Having said that, I think the most important thing with any grade, with any engine, is to make sure that the oil is topped off before working on any kind of grade. You let that oil go too low... you are going to blow it up.

 

AND ya' betta' make sure that you have quality brand oil in it... otherwise you might as well put peanut oil in it...

 

Don

[kpinnc 12,104]

My opinion only, take with whatever relevance you think counts. I've known more than one person who's been injured mowing on a hill.

 

1. Wheel Horse tractors have pathetic brakes, pulling a load or not. Trying to stop downhill can kill you. 

 

2. If the amount of side "lean" feels any bit uncomfortable, you've likely already exceeded the level of safety. 

 

3. Now that I've stepped off the safety podium...  splash lube engines can be starved for oil (and likely are more often than we think) with very little tilt. It takes several minutes with no lube to destroy an engine, but damage begins to occur in seconds. Repeatedly using one in a tilted orientation will radically shorten the life of the engine, even when it seems fine. 

 

I don't know what the limits are with any older engines. Newer engines with specially designed sumps and full pressure lubrication can sometimes tolerate 35 degrees and maintain oil pressure. I have no idea what machine can operate on such a hill. I personally wouldn't work a splash lube engine past 10 degrees. I'm not even sure that would be safe for some engines.  

[Handy Don 12,237]

8 hours ago, kpinnc said:

pulling a load or not. Trying to stop downhill can kill you

I've also observed that you cannot rely excessively on engine braking with either stick or hydro.

When the engine is "pulling" the transmission, the drive belt is tight on its direct path from engine to transmission and it pulls well.

Having the trans "pulling" the engine, however, tensions the belt on the OTHER side. The tension will move the clutch idler (or the tensioner on hydros) which slackens the belt, which then can slip on the engine pulley!

There is some help by pulling up on the clutch pedal but I don't rely on it.

[ebinmaine 67,659]

3 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

I've also observed that you cannot rely excessively on engine braking with either stick or hydro.

When the engine is "pulling" the transmission, the drive belt is tight on its direct path from engine to transmission and it pulls well.

Having the trans "pulling" the engine, however, tensions the belt on the OTHER side. The tension will move the clutch idler (or the tensioner on hydros) which slackens the belt, which then can slip on the engine pulley!

There is some help by pulling up on the clutch pedal but I don't rely on it.

 

I have a new stock replacement Toro 108035 spring on my Cinnamon Horse C160 and I ALSO have another spring wrapped right around the outside of that. I found that helped out quite a bit.

 

[Handy Don 12,237]

15 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

I have a new stock replacement Toro 108035 spring on my Cinnamon Horse C160 and I ALSO have another spring wrapped right around the outside of that. I found that helped out quite a bit.

 

If'n you are good with having a stiffer clutch, then this is a great idea!