523dxi vs JD 430

[Shuboxlover 478]

Hey everyone,

 

I have a few thoughts running around in my head and thought I would come here for some guidance. 

 

I currently mow about 2 acres with a John Deere 430 w/60" deck and it has a 3 bag collection system on it powered by it's own engine.

 

There is a 523 dxi w/60" deck for sale somewhat near me.  I don't necessarily hate my 430 but the 523dxi has always intrigued me.

 

What are your honest opinions on the 523?  When it comes to reliability, is the motor comparable to the yanmar in my 430?  Is the hydro unit comparable to my 430?  Does the 523 60" deck raise higher than the 520 w/60".  That was about my only gripe of the 520 w"60" deck is that it didn't raise very high.  

 

I don't use my bagger very often (probably 4-5 times a year) but when I need it, man it's great to have.  I know there are bagger attachments for the 523 but they seem to be few and far between.

 

ANY insight that you could give would be very appreciated and immensely helpful. 

 

Thanks

Tyson

[Pullstart 62,851]

Well, I know the Xi series tractors are beasts!  it’s essentially a truck frame on a GT.  The hydro has hi and lo ranges and is pretty stout.  Is the 430 a gasser or diesel?  It seems I recall Yanmar made both versions.  
 

 

[Shuboxlover 478]

The 430's are diesels, I just know nothing of the diesel in the 523.  Tractor data says it's a Briggs & Straton, is that correct?

Edited September 27, 2022 by Shuboxlover

[squonk 41,104]

I have no opinion on either but there is a lot bigger network for parts and service for the JD than the 523. When something breaks, how long can you be down for ?

[sergeant 291]

Do You use the 430 now  for anything other Than Mowing ?

Edited September 27, 2022 by sergeant

[Shuboxlover 478]

Squonk....Very good point!!!  

 

Sergeant...No, I only mow with it.  I have a 520 with 2 stage blower for snow removal

Edited September 27, 2022 by Shuboxlover

[sergeant 291]

The Briggs Diesel Is a standard Briggs Diesel That Most Manufacturers used other Than Cub, Deere and Kubota . Simplicity, Ingersoll and a few Other Used that Briggs Diesel  so as Far as The engine Goes replacement Part should be fairly easy to find  .

 Toro I find Is Not Good at Long term service for stuff That had been out of Production more than 10 years The 5Xi series falls More in line with the 1980 & 1990's Cub Cadets while shaft driven engine to transmission  It is belt drive to all other attachments. Nothing wrong with that as Belts actually transfer PTO HP Better than shafts . The 5Xi is a Great Mowing tractors with some Utility  . The Only downside I find in them was the steering system which slows the Tractor down for Turns I know Toro use to Make a Kit that eliminated that feature. I don't know if that available anymore for it . That was actually a Major complaint Toro received On the 5Xi series/ New Holland GT series  The oldest 5Xi tractor is 6 years newer than a JD 430 From My stand point the Toro/WH 5Xi has one of the nicest cutting decks on the Market and in Your case that all that really matter is the Cut If You were Using it for More than Cutting the Grass. I would say stick with the Deere because the 430's versatility and depending On Your area Deere attachment Can be a Lot easier to find than the Toro/WH Implements for the 5Xi series. I don't Mow with Garden tractors anymore if I can help it  ever since Going to a steering wheel Zero turn this past cutting season. (Having an Issue with the electric Lift Kit on the zero turn right now waiting On Parts) so Using a Garden tractor again to Mow for the time Being . So as Far as Just Mowing goes either will be fine.

 

Have You ever Needed to use the diff/lock on the 430 for Your Terrain though? That is the Other downside I find with the 5Xi series is the Lack of Diff/lock if extra traction is needed . But if You have no area where diff/lock is needed for Traction The 5Xi could be Just fine for your needs

Edited September 28, 2022 by sergeant

[Pullstart 62,851]

6 hours ago, sergeant said:

The Only downside I find in them was the steering system which slows the Tractor down for Turns I know Toro use to Make a Kit that eliminated that feature. I don't know if that available anymore for it .

There is a 3-4” long tab on the steering linkage that operates the slow function.  I unbolted it, spun it around tot he right side frame rail, bolted it in place.  Works great!

 

My only complaint is their front axle pin design.  It’s worth taking a look at with a jack under the frame.  

 

 

[sergeant 291]

Glad it's that simple to eliminate

[Shuboxlover 478]

Thanks for all the replies everyone,  very helpful!!!

 

I have used my diff lock some, certainly not every time I mow but probably 10 or so times a year (and I mow twice a week from the end of March to the beginning of December)  Don't know if that would be a deal breaker or not. 

 

I went and looked at it tonight,  runs great!   Still not sure about the deck height,  I measured it but need to measure my 430 yet. 

 

Tyson

Edited September 28, 2022 by Shuboxlover

[wh500special 2,179]

The engine in the Dxi is a Daihatsu.  While it found its way into other equipment from Exmark, Simplicity, and others there are far, far fewer service shops that are interested in them.  That said, they are apparently a very solid engine. 
 

I love the 5xi’s.  The are the best tractor ever to bear the Wheel Horse name.  But given the choice between a JD 430 and an equal 523Dxi, I’d take the Deere. 
 

Why?

 

Implement availability.  Dealer support.  Overall heft.  
 

If it was a choice between the 523 and a Deere 330 (diesel version of the famous 318 that is probably a bit closer to the 5xi in capability) I would prefer the more modern Toro by a long shot. 
 

I have a 523 that needs the injection pump swapped out.  I have a replacement.  I’ll trade you it and throw in a 520Lxi and 518xi too for your 430 😎

 

All that aside, I get excited every time I see a 523Dxi and starting hatching plans to bring it home…

 

Steve

[sergeant 291]

1 hour ago, wh500special said:

The engine in the Dxi is a Daihatsu.  While it found its way into other equipment from Exmark, Simplicity, and others there are far, far fewer service shops that are interested in them.  That said, they are apparently a very solid engine. 
 

I love the 5xi’s.  The are the best tractor ever to bear the Wheel Horse name.  But given the choice between a JD 430 and an equal 523Dxi, I’d take the Deere. 
 

Why?

 

Implement availability.  Dealer support.  Overall heft.  
 

If it was a choice between the 523 and a Deere 330 (diesel version of the famous 318 that is probably a bit closer to the 5xi in capability) I would prefer the more modern Toro by a long shot. 
 

I have a 523 that needs the injection pump swapped out.  I have a replacement.  I’ll trade you it and throw in a 520Lxi and 518xi too for your 430 😎

 

All that aside, I get excited every time I see a 523Dxi and starting hatching plans to bring it home…

 

Steve

The engine is a Partnership engine Between Briggs & Daihatsu

But it's really a Gílson under that red Paint   and not a Wheel Horse a lot of the 5XIi series was actually based on an older Gílson design which Toro has Owned since the 1989 with the Purchase of Lawn-Boy from OMC (OMC Bought Gílson In 1988 which created the Lawn-Boy GT series)

 

The 330 actually still exceeds the 5Xi series as Far as capabilities, IE optional rear 2000RPM PTO and Cat 0 3point Hitch & 1 set of Hydraulic outlets standard. But the 330 didn't Have Power steering or Dual Hydraulic function Like the 332 Though with a Kit, You could Operate the front Blade and 3point hitch Independently with a diverter Valve . Weight wise the 523DXI is 20Lbs Less Than a JD 430

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,496]

5 hours ago, wh500special said:

The engine in the Dxi is a Daihatsu.  While it found its way into other equipment from Exmark, Simplicity, and others there are far, far fewer service shops that are interested in them.  That said, they are apparently a very solid engine. 
 

I love the 5xi’s.  The are the best tractor ever to bear the Wheel Horse name.  But given the choice between a JD 430 and an equal 523Dxi, I’d take the Deere. 
 

Why?

 

Implement availability.  Dealer support.  Overall heft.  
 

If it was a choice between the 523 and a Deere 330 (diesel version of the famous 318 that is probably a bit closer to the 5xi in capability) I would prefer the more modern Toro by a long shot. 
 

I have a 523 that needs the injection pump swapped out.  I have a replacement.  I’ll trade you it and throw in a 520Lxi and 518xi too for your 430 😎

 

All that aside, I get excited every time I see a 523Dxi and starting hatching plans to bring it home…

 

Steve

The Deere 330 was only made one year and Deere was testing the market for a 318 like with a diesel engine.  In 1987, it got replaced by the 332, which included all the features of the 318 (the 330 was more of a 1980s Deere 316 than a 318) plus the diesel engine.

[wh500special 2,179]

Oops.  Brain fart on the 330.  Meant the 332. 
 

I’ve got one (a 332) and it is a great tractor. Had the gas version for a while, the 322, and should have kept it. 
 

I’d never heard the lineage between the 5xi and Gilson. That’s interesting. I wonder  if the contacts I had at Toro from the era were even aware.  
 

The 5xi was clearly designed in the solid modeling/CAD era since they utilized the space so well.  It appears to be the first effort from Wheel Horse that had been actually engineered rather than just made up of an assemblage of parts and components. It’s really an automotive-level design in many ways. 
 

Really the only lacking features the 5xi didn’t have was a 3pt/PTO and a differential lock.  I’m guessing both of these were missing due to constraints imposed by needing to incorporate the modified Unidrive transaxle.  I’m confident Toro researched their likely customers and concluded that few needed those capabilities to serve estate and suburban needs.   As it was, it put the 5xi in sort of an odd spot of being a monster of a machine with the same attachment regime as the tractors that preceded it. 
 

Steve

[sergeant 291]

Gilson Used the same Eaton 11 Hydrostatic Pump But a Peerless Final drive. While Toro used a different final drive which is the UNI  The 5XI frame design was based On an older Gilson frame characteristics from the Late 1970's and early 1980's frame design . They also Used the shaft drive Characteristics of the Gilson Line Plus the Front PTO drive was Based On the Gilson front PTO drive with some changes to accommodate the  Wheel Hose Attach-amattic system  Gilson was one of the most over built But Lower Cost Garden tractors on the Market when they were In Production especially the Pre 1985 Models. I Just wish they would Have incorporated the Gilson Cat 0 3 point Hitch Into the 5Xi series But they wanted to adapt the Wheel Horse Clevis Hitch and wheel Horse tiller Instead

[Dennys502 244]

On 9/28/2022 at 12:31 AM, sergeant said:

The engine is a Partnership engine Between Briggs & Daihatsu

But it's really a Gílson under that red Paint   and not a Wheel Horse a lot of the 5XIi series was actually based on an older Gílson design which Toro has Owned since the 1989 with the Purchase of Lawn-Boy from OMC (OMC Bought Gílson In 1988 which created the Lawn-Boy GT series)

 

The 330 actually still exceeds the 5Xi series as Far as capabilities, IE optional rear 2000RPM PTO and Cat 0 3point Hitch & 1 set of Hydraulic outlets standard. But the 330 didn't Have Power steering or Dual Hydraulic function Like the 332 Though with a Kit, You could Operate the front Blade and 3point hitch Independently with a diverter Valve . Weight wise the 523DXI is 20Lbs Less Than a JD 430

 

 

The 5xi has nothing to do with Gilson or any other design. Almost everything on it is unique and specific to the 5xi. It was designed ground up from specifications set by the head engineer, marketing and styling department. The origional engineer that designed the transmission at wheel horse was brought in from retirement to do the 5xi transmission. The Daihatsu was not a partnership - it was a Briggs labeled Daihatsu.

 

Denny

[sergeant 291]

I know You worked for Toro  Design Lab .

 

But the Interviews I did with Toro say different  for a Book I was writing I was told That Some of the Old Gilson design frame was In Inspiration for 5Xi frame along with the drive Train and front PTO.  Briggs Contacted Daihatsu to Build those engine it was a Partnership. Just as Yanmar is and was In a Partnership with Deere to Build compact Tractors(in the Past) and engines at a Yanmar/Deere Plant In Japan. Deere still Has Input On the Yanmar engines used in there Tractors to this day

 

Both the 5Xi transmission and the Gilson Transmission use Eaton 11 Hydrostatic Pumps  the final drives are different but the Pumps are the same. Wheel Horse and Many other Manufactures Used Eaton 11 Hydrostatic Pumps. The Eaton 11 wasn't only used By Wheel Horse

 

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by sergeant

[wh500special 2,179]

The layout of the 5xi isn’t all that different than the other longitudinal mounted engine tractors on the market.  Most - except perhaps the Ingersol and D-auto series - have a short drive shaft connecting the engine and the pump for the transaxle.  I suspect the layout is more a function of convenience and necessity than design inspiration from any particular tractor. 
 

where Toro did great was in formatting and contouring the various parts of the tractor - including the frame - to come pick with a very efficient design.  And this allowed them to grab the transaxle fore and aft to really anchor it in place.  No more broken transaxle mount plates like on the C/300/400/500’s that preceded it. 
 

Steve
 

 

[Bow_Extreme 544]

I’d buy another dxi in a heartbeat, even though I lost several thousand on my first one.  The injection pumps are easily rebuilt by any diesel injection shop worth a nickel.  If you need an engine rebuild, hold onto your wallet.  I believe the water pumps are no longer available but it’s been a while.  The paint sucks!  Whatever toro used is worthless and you can plan on respraying.  

 

Now, this tractor pulls and has torque like no other.  I believe the Daihatsu is putting out around 30hp and it barely uses fuel.  The tractor doesn’t know the 60” deck is even there at PTO engagement or during full cuts. There are a fair number of attachments available but they are expensive and sometimes, hard to find.  Still, worth the cause.   
 

The frame is strong as an ox and is over engineered but well designed.  Modifications and or bigger tires don’t take well to the dxi.  It wasn’t designed to be modified.  Power Steering is awesome!  You can also put a loader on and run it to your hearts desire.  
 

All in, better than driving a 430 around all day.  

[RED-Z06 2,221]

The 430 is iconic with still decent parts availability, How available are 5xi specific parts?

 

Thr 5xi is newer, the Daihatsu was a good smooth engine, made respectable power.

 

The Rear transaxle in the 430 is the Sunstrand model 15, 90 series, its pretty much a tank, it will twist off an axle...not terrible to repair. 

 

The Toro has a substantially smaller fuel tank and that was an issue for some...4.5g vs others in that class at 5.5g to 6.5g

 

 

[Pullstart 62,851]

This is great discussion! 

[DoctorHfuhruhurr 137]

When in doubt I'd buy and keep both assuming it's within your budget.  

[Shuboxlover 478]

7 hours ago, Pullstart said:

This is great discussion! 

Indeed