Leaderboard

Hi good folks. So what would possess someone to upgrade diff bolts you might ask. Well, I was driving along on the C195, and I heard a slight ticking sound, and stopped. Then went backwards to turn, and the rear wheels lokked up. could move like a 1/4 rew of the tires, then locked up again in both directions. Opened up the tranny, and found this mess................. 2 Bolts were sheared off, and the left diff flange had taken a beating. The remaining 2 bolts were loose. The bolts look to be the original grade 8. Luckily no gears were damaged, even though the bolts had been chewed upon a bit. Also the super thin washes were missing on 3 bolts, and had split, and were deformed on the 4th . That had also a part in the "getting loos" initially, one could speculate. So, I started looking into why they had broken, and in that search I found that it was/is an issue on D series machines. So with all the added weight and abuse I have stressed this horse with, that's probably also part of the reason why. But, and here goes my rant: What the heck went thru the minds of the numnuts, who figured out to use these exact bolts? That is an engineering blunder of magnitude! Let me explain, before you choke in your Coffey Take a look at these bolts The threads are all bashed and worn, and that is caused from the right side diff flange, riding on threads instead of a bolt shoulder. And they sheared right between the right diff flange and the ring gear. Perhaps this explains better. The "golden" bold is the correct grade 8, in original length etc. As you can see, the whole right flange is only riding on threads. Next to it is a bolt they could have chosen, but for some reason didn't. More on that later. So when those lock nuts comes a bit loose, and they do under stress it seems, or it is the thin washer that breaks apart, then the ring gear can move a bit, and the result is that the holes are worn slightly oval on the right flange, and the bolt eventually snaps. Well you say, that can't cause a bolt to break, can it? Well, perhaps/perhaps not, and then again, because that is far from all of that blunder I was talking about. You see, they bored the holes for a 10mm bolt, and put in a 3/8 instead. A 3/8 should be 9.525mm, but these are 9.4, not that that is the deal breaker. But this much to small bolt for the hole, will allow the flanges to turn and scissor cut the bolts ever so slightly, instead of making it a solid joint. In machine terms, this is as far from a tight fit as you can get! End of rant................ So what to do to make it better? Well, I came up with 2 solutions, that I do believe will be way better. 1. The easy on. Just do what WH should have done from the start: Put a M10 bolt in, that fits the hole, and has shoulder all the way thru. That is a good and way tighter fit. I got some 12.9 bolt, that are equivalent to Grade 9, or a tad stronger. About 20% stronger than grade 8, and then add the bigger diameter, that gives 12% more bolt material, that bolt then on its own has about 35% more tensile strength. Then add that it doesn't allow riding on the threads, and a good fit in the hole, I think it is the right way to go. That M10 bolt is too long on the threaded part though, so it need to be cut off, when torqued inn. 12.9 nut, and a lot of locktite should keep this together just fine. This is the solution I think everyone should use in one form or another, and should have been standard from WH. IMO that is. If you do something like this, please remember to check clearance with gears, as big bolt heads may cause the need to grind a bit. As you can see, the M10 bolt only leaves a gap of 0.004 inch But, as you know, I tend to over do things once in a while, so on to option 2. The HD overkill upgrade. Same 12.9 bolts come in a M12, that's just shy of 1/2 inch. And as you can see, it is way more bolt than 3/8 or the M10. This upps the tensile strength of the bolt alone, to 195% of the original. This of cause takes a bit of machining, and as the ring gear is hard as you won't believe, luckily I know a guy I had the diff parts aligned and locked together, and had all 4 holes made in 1 go, so they are now perfectly aligned. Holes were machined by Wire EDM. That happens in a water bath, to keep things cool, so the whole unit came up brown from protective coating and a light surface rust, but only so slight that it could be wiped off with a cloth and some diesel. As you can see, we are now down to a tolerance of 0.001 inch. Or in machining terms, a nice tight fit So now there is absolutely no wiggle room, and all is 100% tight and as 1 solid piece, even without tightening the nuts. So I cleaned everything up good, and put it all back together. The bigger heads on the M12 Allen head, were sticking out too far and wide, and would hit the mushroom gear, so I taped it all really well off, to avoid shavings etc. in bad places, and cut them down in size, after I had torqued them to 100nm, or about 75 ft/lbs (that's about 2 times OEM) In order to avoid the bolts rotating, and damaging the gears, I made a "MIG LOCK" The other side could be left alone in regards to the clearing gears, so I cut the ends of the bolts, and made another "MIG LOCK" between bolt and nut, in stead of locktite. And there we go, back in place. New gasket, a few new bearings while in there, new seals, and then close it up. It now runs absolutely perfect, and I can swear that it has been running with the diff all loose and dangly for a while before they snapped, because now it has less rattling sounds, and less play in the diff and so forth. It just goes as it should. Now let's see if this will make it last, of if anything else is up for an upgrade. The sharp eye may notice that the gear on the hydro output seems a little big, and that's right, but that's a soon to come story for another day. Hope this could help someone out there

Every since we moved back up here I've been looking for a sickle bar mower to trim the briars back on our paths. Only because I knew it couldn't hurt I posted a wanted ad on Craigslist. By golly I got a call yesterday from a guy just minutes away. He had one that he intended to on his hydro tractor but the transmission took a dump. Well, he stopped by with it this morning and 5 hours later he pulled out of the drive leaving the sickle bar mower on my driveway. He thought it was a 48" but it's a 42" which is fine for what I need to do. I'd say it's in pretty good condition but could stand being cleaned up. I think 4 Franklins is pretty decent. My intensions are to go over it mechanically, throw it on my 854, get the paths cleared and then think about a good cleaning and maybe slap some paint on it. I finally got another sickle bar mower and made a new friend too. That's a good day. I've also been looking for a furnace blower and he thinks he knows where a couple are.

Just enjoying the cool morning and the light hitting it just right. The camera never does it justice. I bought a $20.00 carb till I rebuild the original one. Works good so far. I had to drill out the choke lever and governor lever to get the cable and linkage thru. Also the air cleaner housing the drill and tap depth was way off so had to jury rig that for the housing to fit. Outer than that it works good no leaks . It is a good tractor now, as always fun to tinker with these old Iron tractors. Hope you enjoy the picks.

One of these days, if they ever finish building my house, these two and will make the trip from Indiana to Alabama. I think my priorities are right...house with 3 car garage; 3 vehicles; my truck will sit outside; B80, C141, a Cub Cadet pulling tractor, and a Cockshutt 40 sit in the truck's space in the garage.

Collected the new arrival.

A few for FRIDAY !!!!

@B80 Wheel Horse's and Cockshutt's!! Your a man after my own heart. Here are some of my Horse's & Cockshutt's

Got this from a buddy this morning. He used to use it to blow his driveway but it’s been sitting outside a few years unused. It also has a mower deck. Plan is to clean it up and put it back to work. I love my Kohlers. Looking for a replacement metal fender.

Don't get me wrong.I love my Wheel Horse tractors,but if you're looking for something with a front end loader,3 point hitch and rear PTO,I'd look around for a 4 wheel drive compact farm tractor.probably with a diesel engine.While powerful and dependable plus fairly easy to work on,These Horses DO have their limitations.I don't want to offend anyone here.Just my 2 cents worth.Like I said......I still love my Wheel Horse tractors and use the heck out of them.

today , morning lawn cut and towing aeration , lawn came out sweet , cut on highest setting , never cut the same way twice , always mix it up , blades recently sharpened, dropped the oil right after cutting , tractor on slight angle of shed ramp , to enhance drainage , rotella 30 wt , and 4 ounces of rislone zinc additive. the oil that was drained , looked like black coal oil, the added cleaning and lubricity effects of zinc , has made me a believer in it , touched up any lubrication area as needed . trans oil clean , just a regular service / lookover for anything . topped up fuel , added STA - BIL as with everything i have . rotating my 3 horses , they are always in the use and service stage. making virtually all areas common with change and improvement , keeps things simple ,and very reliable . will be dropping my decks for a look , and a hot oil soak down in the sun . no rust or buildup , just staying after it . pete

I'm gonna agree with Pete. We love these machines, and they are rugged. Bucket loaders and three points can be had, but are rare and expensive. Wheel Horses can do most anything, but need attachments to do it. Since the most common implements were mower decks and dozer blades- that is what you find still to this day. If you need a daily use loader and three point (and it sounds like a bush hog), you're far better off with a subcompact diesel 4x4.

The 702 is one of my good show tractors! Probably has best motor on my pre 1980s models. Kohler K161 was rebuilt about five years ago. Always a fun tractor to ride around on.

New York Steam Engine Association. 2021 Pagent of Steam.

. . . VID_20210812_120005372.mp4

Ruger Just turned 1 in June. Nope his ear stays down unless he wants it up.

Barn find !!!! Who says Friday the 13th is unlucky??? Original Owner,,,,,,,,PATINA to the MAX

I installed the new pulley. The noises have disappeared and the belt now no longer has axial movements. thanks everyone for the help

Make the garage bigger......

Happy Birthday @D_Mac, we are all glad you were born!

Thanks for the ride Craig.

I agree! The safety and security of the kitchen furniture. The previous two chewed the spindles off the chairs and dug a hole in the wall.

My 308-8

Had to leave early. Calling hours/ wake/ visitation for my Uncle.

Nell was a little older than I thought. Just over 6 weeks now and she's now at her new home.

Sounds like we both were lucky. Somehow I doubt anything newer would have survived injesting much more than dust.

The DW had a cicada land on her yesterday, I guess he was late to the party and was trying to find a girlfriend.

Wow, Must run in the family. Disabled veterans advocate Richard Star has died, but his fight for concurrent receipt presses on (militarytimes.com) Text - S.344 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): Major Richard Star Act | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

Mig Lock between the bolt and nut.

Nice fix Tom and I can see your rant but keep in mind that the designers didn't know that you were gonna do the (excellent) mods to this beast or work it like you have. Nice the way the tranny can be still attached to the tractor to do this. I like the tack weld ... can always nip them off with a thin cutoff wheel if ever need be. That's the interesting part I would have thought more of a boring/reaming operation. Didn't know an EDM could do that kind of operation. Did I miss how the new nuts are locked on? Excellent write up!

You had me up to the last part, where you welded the bolts to the case, and machined off the female hex key hole. Not sure I would have gone that route, but then again, you may be a little more knowledgeable in this particular area than I. Either way, great write up and build. Glad it's back together and working out

Well we’re still here I had to work today on my birthday my boss said she was going to make it a paid holiday she didn’t tell me I was going to have to work it!!! Lol.. I really appreciate everyone wishing me a happy birthday!! My husband thought he’d be sweet and bought 37 helium birthday balloons and brought them to my work!

1986 417-8 580 hours on Winter duty. I actually like this time of year rather than the 90 + temps out there today. Nice thread @bigcreek

A few that caught my eye

Too hot to be outside so back at it today.

I don't think there can be much short of an improvement using grades of oil today that simply weren't broadly available when these machines were built. Recommendations by engineers most often are compromised by what is available at the time. I know because I am one. We do what we can with what we have and look for improvements as they are available. While many things have lost quality over time- and become throw away when used up, oil has actually gotten better. I don't wish to open another thread about this oil vs that- that horse is black and blue on crutches with post traumatic stress meds in his pocket. But I don't cling to "only this oil works" per the manual either. Part of the purpose of this forum is spreading experience virtually, and this thread is a perfect example of a new idea that is very promising. Time will tell, but it looks great so far.

65ml is a tiny bit over 2oz. Rislone's spec is based on SN grade oils which are federally mandated to not be above 800 ppm Zn. Rotella T1 is above that, at nearly 1000 ppm. I went to Rislone's website, read the data sheet on their ZDDP product, researched the Zn content of Rotella and SN oils and determined that 1 or maybe at most 1.5 oz of ZDDP per quart of Rotella T1 would get one to the optimum level of Zn without becoming acidic over time. What's the oil capacity of your engines? My KT17 holds about 1.5 QTS. 65ml / QT means about 100ml (a little over 3 oz) for 1.5 QTS of oil. This is for oil that is STARTING at 800ppm of ZN (SN oils) Since T1 is STARTING at nearly 1000ppm, one would use less ZDDP than they would for SN oil. This works out to 1 oz / QT in Rotella T1. When it comes to some things, more is not better. Too much Zn causes the engine oil to become acidic and that would be worse than NO Zn at all! Do the math yourself if you disagree, and decide if you are perhaps going a bit heavy on the ZDDP. Completely up to you... but as Cy Simms used to say, "An informed consumer...) etc

Sounds like you have your priorities straight! Hope you can get into the new house soon.

20210812_122156.mp4

20210812_120739.mp4

I always locktite those screws. In fact one I put studs in with locktite and used nylock nuts...

I have used most of what is out there, 10w-30, 10w-30 full synthetic, 10w-40 both and 5w-40 delvac all worked good. But the best i have tried is HYTran. Had a hydro Cub in for resurrection and it called for HyTran. It is a 10w-30 viscosity, that Cub was so smooth. I started using it in the horses and it made a difference all the way around. I am thinking at the time the old 10w-30 was a good match, and for all it is worth, there are plenty of old hydro machines still around. I am thinking the HyTran additive package matches the application the best.