Predator engines

[JAinVA 4,623]

Got the last 416 cleaned up but the Onan will take some time to go through. The acorn warehouse will get the full service treatment but for now I wanted to check out the hydro on it and the 520 as well. I know that the one 520 has no wiring harness and I will need to go through the 416 as well. What I needed was a self contained engine package that did not connect to the tractors fuel supply or electricals. I took a chance on a 13 horse Predator and so far I am happy with it. First pull and it fired right up. That is only the second time that happened and the last time was a Predator as well. I used a extra Onan mounting plate to attach the engine to and spaced the plate up 1 1/4" to give the same height as the Onan. It was 7" from the top of the frame rail to the crank centerline and the Pred was only 5 1/2". If you don't get the crank in the right postion the drive belt will run against it self at the tension pulley and fail. I had assumed that the Kohler on the the big ugly 520 was close to the same height and it was a full inch lower and the belt only lasted about 30 hours. I will need to diassemble the mounting sytem for paint and will try to get some pictures of the individual parts if anyone is interested.

Edited May 21, 2017 by JAinVA
Trying to get it to flow across the screen better.

[pfrederi 17,886]

Would love to see a couple pics of your mounting!!

[Aldon 4,827]

Ditto

[JPWH 6,098]

I'm also interested. 

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,353]

@JAinVA Well Jim you should have had your wife on the tractor . Your hat says it all . Glad you got the rig to work.

[JAinVA 4,623]

Jim

    Even with my glasses I can't read the hat.Darn good eyes buddy.I have been wrenching some more on this thing trying to beat the rain.I have some more pictures of the install but not the closeups of the mounting

setup yet.I got the hood mounted but what had to be done to the hood is not for the faint of heart.The headlight mount had to be removed as did part of the brace on the flywheel side.What came next will give some you pause but the side of the lower hood had to be bulged out to accommodate the air cleaner.Before any of you go Ethel, look what some idiot did to a perfectly good WH hood the bottom is really rusted badly.

The engine is drilled and tapped to bolt on the pto engagement bits so that is a plus.I will get more pictures if you folks want to see them.

[chex313 123]

So Jim the Headlights need to be removed for the HF 13 HP but from the other threads on the HF 22HP the bigger engine fits with the headlights in? I ask because I spent a lot of time straightening my hood to except new headlight housings and I do not want to have to pull them out...even if it means spending more for the bigger motor.

[tom2p 2,394]

47 minutes ago, chex313 said:

So Jim the Headlights need to be removed for the HF 13 HP but from the other threads on the HF 22HP the bigger engine fits with the headlights in? I ask because I spent a lot of time straightening my hood to except new headlight housings and I do not want to have to pull them out...even if it means spending more for the bigger motor.

could do something neat - high powered headlamp on one side - and an exhaust outlet on the other side 

 

similar to an old Ford Thunderbolt - but instead of converting inboard headlights to intake one headlight will be converted to exhaust 

 

[JAinVA 4,623]

I can't remember if the the headlight mount needs to be removed or just the headlight.You can get a 13 Horse Predator exhaust stack( the go cart guys love the Preds) on E-bay and mount an aftermarket muffler so the head lights remain.I didn't know this when I did the swap so with a badly rotted hood I just hacked until it covered the engine.I would recoment the remote stack and aftermarket muffler as the stock Pred 13  exhaust is louder

Edited April 27, 2020 by JAinVA

[chex313 123]

6 minutes ago, JAinVA said:

I can't remember if the the headlight mount needs to be removed or just the headlight.You can get a 13 Horse Predator exhaust stack( the go cart guys love the Preds) on E-bay and mount an aftermarket muffler so the head lights remain.I didn't know this when I did the swap so with a badly rotted hood I just hacked until it covered the engine.I would recoment the remote stack and aftermarket muffler as the stock Pred 13  exhaust is louder

Thanks , that sounds good. I'll go look at the engine...I thought it was the intake and airfilter in the front.

Edited April 27, 2020 by chex313

[chex313 123]

Jim, I started on this engine swap this morning...Mounting the spacers under the plate put me way off in height for center of shaft pulley (Clearly its much easier to mount that way tho)

So I lowered the plate and put the spacers under just the motor and that got the height right.

 

Did you pull the cotter/hair pin on the bottom (Under the Pulley's at raised tab portion of plate) of PTO engagement mechanism to compensate, and that is why you were able to put the spacers under the plate. 

 

If so did that have any effect on the clutch working?

Thanks

Edited June 1, 2020 by chex313

[Cvans 1,009]

I've been very impressed with my Predator engine so far. 

[cschannuth 3,816]

You will love the predator. I have a little story about my brother that he won’t know I’m telling. He bought a minibike for his kids about 15 years ago from a farm store and it had a 212 cc predator on it. And that thing still starts and runs like a top today. The highlight of the story is that as anal as I am about maintaining and maintenance on my stuff, I’m not sure my brother even knows that that engine has oil in it. It’s never been checked or changed and it still is a blast to drive after all these years. I’ve had one in my 606 roller for several years and it is my work horse. 

[D_Mac 8,713]

I have been waiting to pick one up for my Lambert project but have yet to been able to get one. They are always sold out. They told me to try again tomorrow. Has anyone tried the 6.5hp one? If so where do you find the pulley to fit the shaft?

[JAinVA 4,623]

chex313,

    Yes I removed the cotter pin and allowed the pto bow to rest at the bottom of the curve on the plate.The pto worked fine.

[chex313 123]

2 minutes ago, JAinVA said:

chex313,

    Yes I removed the cotter pin and allowed the pto bow to rest at the bottom of the curve on the plate.The pto worked fine.

Thanks, Yeah that had me stumped for a half hour , trying to figure our how my math could be so far off LOL . 

 

I like the way you did it better, but I have the motor up on the risers now....

[JAinVA 4,623]

I didn't have any pictures with the engine on a 520 until now. Post us some pictures when get done.

Edited June 1, 2020 by JAinVA

[chex313 123]

Bending the hood the way you did Jim may be the best option...Aftermarket doesn't fit... The hood is about 4 inch's from closing.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by chex313
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[SylvanLakeWH 25,969]

6 hours ago, D_Mac said:

I have been waiting to pick one up for my Lambert project but have yet to been able to get one. They are always sold out. They told me to try again tomorrow. Has anyone tried the 6.5hp one? If so where do you find the pulley to fit the shaft?

 

I put one on my WHrat WHrecker... pretty easy fit and starts first pull every time... I had the pulley in the junk... er... parts pile...

 

 

 

 

[chex313 123]

6 hours ago, D_Mac said:

I have been waiting to pick one up for my Lambert project but have yet to been able to get one. They are always sold out. They told me to try again tomorrow. Has anyone tried the 6.5hp one? If so where do you find the pulley to fit the shaft?

I ordered online , the stores are out of a lot of stuff...Shipping was only $6.99 . 

Edited June 2, 2020 by chex313

[JAinVA 4,623]

chex313,

 worst part of the hood issue is I had to cut the left brace off.I had a hood that was badly rotted at the bottom so I really didn't care.The Predator now is on one of the 520 tractors and the crane boom required a custom hood..

Edited June 2, 2020 by JAinVA

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,353]

@JAinVA Jim have you had any problems running the PTO on the predator ?

[JAinVA 4,623]

The short answer is no.The Predator has ball bearings supporting the crank just like a Kohler.The Onans have bearings similar to an automotive engines.All the pto  mounting bolts on the Pred are SAE and not metric.If you mount the spacers(1 1/4") under the Onan plate the PTO bow has to be lowered  by removing the hairpin clip and letting the bow rest  as pictured.Putting the spacers under the engine eliminates this issue but then you run into the heads from the engine bolts possibly hitting the frame.

One other thing I know you asked about before is battery charging of the Pred.The one I use keeps up with the winch,no issues.

Edited June 2, 2020 by JAinVA

[D_Mac 8,713]

1 hour ago, chex313 said:

I ordered online , the stores are out of a lot of stuff...Shipping was only $6.99 . 

Was it shipped to your house or to the store?

[12Horse Paladin 1,038]

10 hours ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

 

I had the pulley in the junk... er... parts pile...

 

 

 

 

THERE IS NO JUNK.

Only nonpretty not-yet-essential-PARTS...

Edited June 2, 2020 by 12Horse Paladin