HF Predator 22HP on sale

[WNYPCRepair 1,923]

In case anyone is interested

[bowtieguy 334]

Might have to buy myself a birthday present.....got a C-175 "just awaitin' for one of these!!!!now if we could get a "ole timers:" discount also!

 

3-10-16..update....geeez, birthdays are fun....was down in the dumps today as I had to give Uncle Sam A. some green stuff for TAXES....made note to self: "Self pay yourself first".....so I printed coupon and made a trip to HF and now have a big ole 22 hp parked in my pickup bed.....look out C-175 here we come!

'Slammer, get ready to rattle some windows and make some money on this one....dual exhausts without mufflers ought to get everyones attention.....tell em' to bring lots of CASH!!!!!...we are wheelin' & dealin' now!!

Edited March 12, 2016 by bowtieguy
Add update info

[953 nut 56,026]

As "Tim the Toolman Taylor" would say, "More Power"!

[Phatboy 565]

How durable are these engines ? Are they well built and do they last a long time ?

[DennisThornton 4,769]

Now I should qualify that I've heard NOTHING about the larger horsepowers and that I have NO first hand experience but I follow everything I can about them and I'd buy one if I needed it.  Sure can't beat the price!  

[WNYPCRepair 1,923]

The only thing negative I have heard is they have no bearings to account for the PTO, so you might want to consider an electric PTO. A few guys here have put them on their WH

[DennisThornton 4,769]

I think that bearing issue also applies to other brand names.  Thought I read that not all Kohlers have the proper bearings for that side thrust.

[Howie 898]

Just looked at my latest flyer it says, Ball bearing supported shaft for smooth and strong performance.

[WNYPCRepair 1,923]

19 minutes ago, Howie said:

Just looked at my latest flyer it says, Ball bearing supported shaft for smooth and strong performance.

 

 

The problem is there is no bearing for side to side movement. Thrust bearing, maybe? When you engage the PTO, it puts a side load on the crankshaft, and without a bearing to absorb that, it starts to wear the crank. An electric PTO eliminates the side load.

[Howie 898]

Understand, but the kohler K series have ball bearings on the crank so I was just trying to put two an two together. Just read 

that ion the ad the other day, don't think I had seen it before. I guess if they do not use the right kind of bearing then that would't

help would it?

 

 

Edited March 9, 2016 by Howie

[WNYPCRepair 1,923]

Here is a guy putting one in a D series. If you search the forum for predator, you will find others. He used an electric PTO on the D series.

Both the Kohler and the Predator have ball bearings for the rotation of the crank. The Kohler in Wheel Horses (or most anyway) have an additional bearing at the end of the crank to absorb the sideways force of the PTO pushing the crankshaft sideways. At least that is how I understand it, I could be wrong

 

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

Looking at the parts blowup on the Predator, I only see a thrust washer #73 on the shaft. It appears that the crankshaft just runs in a machined hole in the block. The Kohler KT17 uses a sleeve bearing along with a roller thrust bearing and washers for the crankshaft.

 

Another thing is the price of an electric PTO is not cheap for an engine like this.

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,358]

I was reading the reviews a couple of minutes ago. Some one named Rick in Pa put one in a Black Hood. Decal said 222 ( I think that is right ) Automatic. Just my 

[Howie 898]

I did not go look at the parts list on these, just saw the bearing reference on the latest flyer. If indeed they are the plain bearing

an electric clutch would be needed. As far as the Kohler K series none of the multiple engines I have rebuilt over the years have

had anything but ball bearings on each end. I don't have experience with the Magnums though. Did have a late model V-twin in

my shop last year, plain bearing had thrust bearing on pto side.

[82Caddy 851]

52 minutes ago, WNYPCRepair said:

Here is a guy putting one in a D series. If you search the forum for predator, you will find others. He used an electric PTO on the D series.

 

I think you're referring to me?  

 

37 minutes ago, shallowwatersailor said:

Another thing is the price of an electric PTO is not cheap for an engine like this.

 

It's much more affordable then one would imagine.  Hop on ebay (there's 4 right now) and single pulley electric PTO's for 1 1/8 shafts can be had for 60-75$, add in a 15$ sleeve adapter to get from the 1" predator PTO shaft to an 1 1/8" on most electric PTO's and your side load issue is no longer an issue.  If you wanted a double pulley, things get more complicated but can still be overcome with a bit of research/imagination.

 

[WNYPCRepair 1,923]

7 minutes ago, Howie said:

I did not go look at the parts list on these, just saw the bearing reference on the latest flyer. If indeed they are the plain bearing

an electric clutch would be needed. As far as the Kohler K series none of the multiple engines I have rebuilt over the years have

had anything but ball bearings on each end. I don't have experience with the Magnums though. Did have a late model V-twin in

my shop last year, plain bearing had thrust bearing on pto side.

 

 

Ah, OK, I was just going by what I have read here, I'm definitely no mechanic.

 

1 minute ago, 82Caddy said:

I think you're referring to me?  

 

 

LOL, yes, and a nice job too. 

[Howie 898]

I just looked at the parts list and as said above it just shows a thrust washer. Yet in the description they specifically say ball bearing shaft.

Looked on another site and it says ball bearing  supported horizontal shaft. Something amiss here!

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

Maybe Customer Service can answer the question.   For technical questions, please call 1-888-866-5797.   ITEM 61614

 

Could there be an improved version with ball bearings?

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

8 hours ago, 82Caddy said:

It's much more affordable then one would imagine.  Hop on ebay (there's 4 right now) and single pulley electric PTO's for 1 1/8 shafts can be had for 60-75$, add in a 15$ sleeve adapter to get from the 1" predator PTO shaft to an 1 1/8" on most electric PTO's and your side load issue is no longer an issue.  If you wanted a double pulley, things get more complicated but can still be overcome with a bit of research/imagination.

 

Here is one but it still is another $130-$180, plus the sleeve. It actually has dual pulleys and replaceable ball bearings, although if used with a snowthrower the pulley for the #79362 version would have to be substituted. At that price point, I would rather do another 10 HP diesel conversion that can accept the Wheel Horse PTO given the thirst that twins have.

 

Edited March 9, 2016 by shallowwatersailor

[82Caddy 851]

13 minutes ago, shallowwatersailor said:

Here is one but it still is another $130-$180, plus the sleeve. It actually has dual pulleys and replaceable ball bearings, although if used with a snowthrower the pulley for the #79362 version would have to be substituted. At that price point, I would rather do another 10 HP diesel conversion that can accept the Wheel Horse PTO given the thirst that twins have.

 

 

I'm not here to argue. Just pointing out if you start looking at field coils, notice that if you find the right one (hint it's from a JD) it'll slide right over a wheel horse dual pulley electric pto and bolt up to the predator block.

 

Different strokes for different folks I guess at the end of the day. 

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

10 hours ago, 82Caddy said:

 

I'm not here to argue. Just pointing out if you start looking at field coils, notice that if you find the right one (hint it's from a JD) it'll slide right over a wheel horse dual pulley electric pto and bolt up to the predator block.

 

Different strokes for different folks I guess at the end of the day. 

I'm not here for that either. This is the best Wheel Horse forum around, and is informative and helpful. I enjoy different schools of thought on the various topics. That is how problems are solved.

 

Good to know that there is a way to make it work and that would be a good fit. I originally just Googled electric PTO and found some upwards of $300.00. That's where I thought the expense would be. I'm sure that I am not the only one that is disappointed that the Predator appears to not have ball bearings supporting the shaft, unlike their singles.

[WNYPCRepair 1,923]

This is on sale again

[bowtieguy 334]

Note: "Limit 5"....lol.....but can tell you it is a good fit on a Case 448.....all hydro....next up is the C-175 WH swap...still measuring!~