Loader or Johnny Bucket?

[WNYPCRepair 1,922]

I was considering building a Johnny bucket for the 522xi. I had an idea for one that I think will work well, which started me thinking. I don't need to be able to lift high, just carry dirt, stone, and mulch around the yard mostly. A loader would be nice, but the hydraulics aren't cheap, nor is the steel to build it. So, I thought about building a Johnny bucket, and save to build a loader, and also keep watching for one for sale. 

But then I started thinking, the steel to build the Johnny bucket will be at least a third of the cost of the steel for a loader, should I really spend the money on the Johnny bucket? Would there be a resale market for a Johnny bucket? If so, I should do it on the 520-H, to have a larger market.

 

Opinions? Is it worth doing?

Edited January 29, 2016 by WNYPCRepair

[stevebo-(Moderator) 8,352]

A buddy of mine built a johnny bucket for his 522 but it is pretty big and heavy. IMO save your pennies and find a loader for it. I have a kwik way on my 522 and absolutely love it.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

Modify one of those ATV buckets(swisher brand model 15714) they sell at TSC to fit the Xi or the H I believe it's 44" wide all the hard work is done for about $400...I was going this route till I snagged my Kioti...just my 

[fast88pu 3,324]

save for the loader

[DennisThornton 4,769]

I have both a FEL and a Johnny Bucket clone and of course there is little comparison in capabilities, price or performance, but I love both!  Moving 100+ lb loads from the ground and dumping them elsewhere is the Johnny Bucket's bread and butter.  Very handy!  But of course it will never be a replacement for a FEL.  As usual, my thoughts are to have BOTH!

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

Brian, the Johnny Bucket is very popular with tractor owners for all brands. He even makes a version for the old Farmall Cub! I do believe given the interest in the 5xi and the craving for attachments, there would be resale. The lift capacity is 250 pounds for the JB Jr., and the Kwik-Way lift capacity is 350 pounds. Granted you would lose the ability to raise the load 6.5 feet overhead - but it is a simple On/Off instead of a semi-permanent mount.

 

I have wanted to adapt my Wheel Horse version to the 5xi but, as you know, the front Attach-A-Matic hitch is different with the two pin attachment and at a different height plus width. I have approached John three times (after purchasing each 5xi)  about producing a version. He needs a physical tractor to work from and "Toro didn't sell many in his area." Seeing snowmobileaddict having his pump mount cut for his FEL raised my interest again.

 

Here are two photos from almost four years ago with my WH HB Jr. in front of my 520xi. I believe that the mount could be similar to the CC/JD/Craftsman/etc. mount with a vertical linear actuator instead of the underslung on on the WH. My suggestion, if you go this route, see if you can purchase the bucket and frame as he does make additions for the bucket. I especially like my toothbar. Then there is also his plow attachment into the same mount.

 

 

 

[Tankman 3,518]

You might consider a bucket (scoop) that just hangs on your snow blade. Makes for easy on 'n off to move mulch, sands, dirt, whatever.

An easy fab project and 12 ga crs'll work.

 

Of course, nothin' beets a FEL.

[doc724 925]

I'm with the FEL crowd on this one.  As Andy (snomobileaddict) found out, if you can find a Kwikway to fit the classic tractors, you can always fab up the undercarriage to fit a 5xi.  That being said, my neighbor fabbed up a u-shaped attachment for his JD hydraulic plow and added an extra cylinder to tip the blade forward (kind of like a home made johnny bucket).  The attachment is a quick on-off thing and while not perfect, it is great for moving mulch and sure beats shoveling into a wheel barrow.

[Snowmobileaddict 403]

If anyone would like a CAD file (.DXF) of just the front quick-attach pieces I'm happy to provide it.  As shallow water mentioned above, I made a pump carrier for my FEL project and patterned the carrier from my existing mule drive pulley box for my mower deck.

 

The CAD file would be all that you need to get the side plates made at any CNC metal cutter (Plasma CAM or laser).  2 side plates, 1 front plate and 2 pegs cut from 13/16" round stock are all that it is.  To get those parts together would probably be less than $50.  I had all that steel in the bottom pic cut with a CNC laser out of 1/4" HR steel for $125 material included.

 

The front clip on the 5xi looks like it can accommodate up to 3/8" thick side plates for these front carriers.  I made mine out of 1/4" plate and it looked like there was 1/8" more room in there on each side.  Come to think of it, I believe the single stage 42" 5xi snow thrower I had was 3/8" thick at the front attach point. 

 

some pics: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

Here a few examples of mounts. Of course, the one for the 5xi would be specific. There may be something off the JB shelf close enough that could be used with the new sideplates as well. They would need to be deeper and taller at the front. In my case, all I would need is the new mount, the bracket from the JB to the mount, and weldments for my existing actuator. John has standardized on his bucket design and frame. They differ with the bracket to the mount.

 

My grand scheme is to wire all three 5xi the same so that the JB and snowthrower with motorized chute electrically would plug-in the same. I would use the same control box on all three and be able to swap them around.

 

Just having the mount opens up additional attachments for the 5xi/NH GT to:

• Generator
• Johnny Bucket Jr.
• Front trailer hitch
• Front weight bar for tilling
• Your imagination?

Kubota BX Mount

 

JD Mount (probably closest to the 5xi)

 

Craftsman Mount (also close to 5xi mount)

[Snowmobileaddict 403]

I've seen some requests for CAD files associated with my front mount I built as a pump carrier in my loader build.

 

If you need to have a CNC cutter make one up for you, all you need to do is find some vendors in your area and e-mail them for a quote.  Include the DXF file in this post as an attachment.  It is in DXF format and that is the preferred generic format for most shops.  The file includes directions to the CNC operator to cut QTY 2 side plates and QTY 1 front plate.  There is also a scale next to each piece.  Can't get much easier than that.

 

You'll need a couple 13/16" pegs cut from round stock as well.  They are like 1.25" each.  They cost me like $2.50 at Midwest Metal Warehouse.  They have a website if you have no steel shops nearby that cater to hobbyists or offer counter service.

-Andy

(click the Link at the bottom of my post for the DXF file)

V

V

V

 

5xi front mount sideplates and front plate.dxf

Edited January 29, 2016 by Snowmobileaddict

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

2 hours ago, doc724 said:

I'm with the FEL crowd on this one.  As Andy (snomobileaddict) found out, if you can find a Kwikway to fit the classic tractors, you can always fab up the undercarriage to fit a 5xi.  That being said, my neighbor fabbed up a u-shaped attachment for his JD hydraulic plow and added an extra cylinder to tip the blade forward (kind of like a home made johnny bucket).  The attachment is a quick on-off thing and while not perfect, it is great for moving mulch and sure beats shoveling into a wheel barrow.

I hear you, Don. It is just that I have the JB already. Actually I have found that there are a lot of small older SCUT tractors like a Kubota B6100/B6200 4WD for sale in my area that were used on horse farms. I came close about three years ago but the seller went away for the weekend - and came back then sold it to a neighbor's friend instead! 4WD is even better!

[Snowmobileaddict 403]

PDF files of front mount carrier drawings are also linked in the bottom of this post.

 

If all a fella needs is the 2 side plates and the font plate made up I'd send a PM to slammer302 on this site.  He's a CNC operator and a WH enthusiast.   The DXF file in my post above this one would be all that he would need.

 

He could make these (or any local shop could) easily and it wouldn't cost much in time material or shipping.

 

-Andy

 

 

 

 

 

5xi front mount sideplates and front plate.pdf

Revised SUBFRAME FLATS QTR Inch Plate 2002.pdf

Edited January 29, 2016 by Snowmobileaddict

[WNYPCRepair 1,922]

3 hours ago, shallowwatersailor said:

Brian, the Johnny Bucket is very popular with tractor owners for all brands. He even makes a version for the old Farmall Cub! I do believe given the interest in the 5xi and the craving for attachments, there would be resale. The lift capacity is 250 pounds for the JB Jr., and the Kwik-Way lift capacity is 350 pounds. Granted you would lose the ability to raise the load 6.5 feet overhead - but it is a simple On/Off instead of a semi-permanent mount.

 

I have wanted to adapt my Wheel Horse version to the 5xi but, as you know, the front Attach-A-Matic hitch is different with the two pin attachment and at a different height plus width. I have approached John three times (after purchasing each 5xi)  about producing a version. He needs a physical tractor to work from and "Toro didn't sell many in his area." Seeing snowmobileaddict having his pump mount cut for his FEL raised my interest again.

 

Here are two photos from almost four years ago with my WH HB Jr. in front of my 520xi. I believe that the mount could be similar to the CC/JD/Craftsman/etc. mount with a vertical linear actuator instead of the underslung on on the WH. My suggestion, if you go this route, see if you can purchase the bucket and frame as he does make additions for the bucket. I especially like my toothbar. Then there is also his plow attachment into the same mount.

 

 

 

 

 

This mount doesn't look all that difficult to adapt to the XI. It looks like it is lifted like a snowblower, which is what I had in mind. I was planning on going from the mid mount though, like my 2 stage blower, with bracing to the back axle to spread the weight. 

What is the electric actuator for, dumping? Seems like it would be really slow. 

 

 

 

 

 

[WNYPCRepair 1,922]

Wow, the Johnny Bucket isn't cheap, that is for sure. 

Edited January 29, 2016 by WNYPCRepair

[DennisThornton 4,769]

1 hour ago, WNYPCRepair said:

Wow, the Johnny Bucket isn't cheap, that is for sure. 

That is a fact!

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

I bought mine used off CL and it was only six months old at the time. That is how I have the 312A as it came with weights, chains, and a 48" deck as well. It has the doubler and turbo dump feature. Total it was less than the JB Jr. new. So all I will need is the mount, and the bracket that is sticking up in the photo revised. I prefer to have the actuator up front so that everything can come off by just kneeling.

 

The Wheel Horse version has the actuator slung underneath which was fine with the 312A as it had the manual lift and was kept in the raised position. When I had it on the 520-H, the hydraulic lift settled and I would have to raise it each time I went to use it. The reason it was designed this way was John at JB felt that the WH hydraulics weren't strong enough so he added the actuator. He may have been confused with earlier hydraulic lifts and the electric lift though. The 520-H was capable of lifting the two-stage snowblower!

 

[WNYPCRepair 1,922]

3 minutes ago, shallowwatersailor said:

So all I will need is the mount, and the bracket that is sticking up in the photo revised.

 

 

You mean the bracket the actuator is attached to, under the tractor?

How long is that actuator between attaching points?

Frankly, I would do away with it and use the xi's lift. I made a spacer for the flag and tube about 1 1/2" longer than needed, and it lifted the 2 stage blower like it was nothing, high enough that it hit the bumper! And the pulley box alone on the xi 2 stage feels 100 pounds, or maybe I am just getting old and weak. 

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

39 minutes ago, WNYPCRepair said:

 

 

You mean the bracket the actuator is attached to, under the tractor?

How long is that actuator between attaching points?

Frankly, I would do away with it and use the xi's lift. I made a spacer for the flag and tube about 1 1/2" longer than needed, and it lifted the 2 stage blower like it was nothing, high enough that it hit the bumper! And the pulley box alone on the xi 2 stage feels 100 pounds, or maybe I am just getting old and weak. 

I am guessing that John has been making these for about fifteen years and has been revising along the way. The original Wheel Horse model used the lift and a spring similar to the snowthrower to assist lifting. The bucket dumped using a rope to release it. The bar in the photo of the 312A with the  actuator wouldn't be used on the 5xi. John actually has three holes for attaching it to the yoke that vary the lifting height versus capacity. Remember originally a manual lift. The linear actuators were a huge improvement but the WH design, even with the update, was old compared to other tractors on the market.

 

Whoops! I referenced the wrong photo. What I need to revise is the yoke that goes from the bucket frame to the Classic Wheel Horse Attach-A-Matic. That would be shorter and lower on the 5xi. The actuator would then be mounted using weldments about 20 degrees off vertical. That way it wouldn't high-center (drag) on a crest; or I could leave the mower attached and just remove the mule drive. It would be similar in concept to the JB Sleeve Hitch I have on the diesel but attached on the front. Remember I have the 2nd actuator and wouldn't need to use the hydraulic lift.

 

 

[WNYPCRepair 1,922]

Would that actuator even fit on the xi? Or would you need a mount similar to the JD to get the top above the bumper?

 

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

43 minutes ago, WNYPCRepair said:

Would that actuator even fit on the xi? Or would you need a mount similar to the JD to get the top above the bumper?

 

The actuator that is for lifting the bucket has a 4" travel with 1,200 lb. lifting force and is 10-3/8" center to center retracted. The one on the sleeve hitch has the same dimensions but only 600 lb. of lifting force. I figure that it would have to extend out and go above the plastic bumper valance for the mounting. The sleeve hitch has 7" of clearance to the ground so I would probably shoot for that in front.  I'll need to search the web for additional photos of the JB Jr. that are taken level instead of from above. Perhaps also contact through other forums, members that have them as well on other tractors.

[WNYPCRepair 1,922]

They do sell the actuators, though they aren't cheap. I'll try to find out who makes them and see if I can get them cheaper.

 

[DennisThornton 4,769]

Brian, I've spent a lot of time chasing actuators and the Branded higher powered ones are still pricey and bit allusive.  Amazon or eBay have some "bargains" but I'm a bit leery.  I'm hoping you have better luck than I...

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,357]

Dennis , the actuator I used on my rear hitch , works find not problems at all. Placed a block of wood ( 6" x 6" ) under hitch lifted back of 310-8 off the ground so I could install chains.

[WNYPCRepair 1,922]

On January 29, 2016 at 8:17 AM, shallowwatersailor said:

I have approached John three times (after purchasing each 5xi)  about producing a version. He needs a physical tractor to work from and "Toro didn't sell many in his area."

 

 

 

I'll provide a tractor, if he pays for shipping, and returns it with a Johnny Bucket.

 

 

 

 

 

On January 30, 2016 at 8:36 PM, shallowwatersailor said:

The actuator that is for lifting the bucket has a 4" travel with 1,200 lb. lifting force and is 10-3/8" center to center retracted. The one on the sleeve hitch has the same dimensions but only 600 lb. of lifting force. I figure that it would have to extend out and go above the plastic bumper valance for the mounting. The sleeve hitch has 7" of clearance to the ground so I would probably shoot for that in front.  I'll need to search the web for additional photos of the JB Jr. that are taken level instead of from above. Perhaps also contact through other forums, members that have them as well on other tractors.

 

 

I'm confused, what is the sleeve hitch for?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2016 by WNYPCRepair